The what if thread -WW2- - Page 2




 
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July 10th, 2009  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brillix
If the USA didn't enter the European theatre then the Nazi will be focused on Eastern Front against The Red Army. WW2 won't ended at 1945 for sure.
Not as long as Britain stayed in the war.
The belief I have about the roles of Britian, Russia and USA is that if any one of them was removed from the conflict Germany would have achieved its goals.
- Remove Britain and the Commonwealth and hundreds of thousands of German troops, aircraft and materials are freed up for action on the Russian front.
- Remove Russia and you free up millions of German troops for action against the West.
- Remove the USA and both Britain and Russia are history by 1942, Britain strangled into submission via the Uboat blockade and Russia due to lack of materials supplied by Lend Lease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukpike
Since this is what if, then why not the US getting Germany to declare war on Japan after December 7th, 1941. Agreeing to aid Germany against Russia. US taking all the western hemisphere, Germany taking Europe and Russia. US taking Japan and China.

With German Uboats not needed against American convoys, they could be used against Japan.

Should give Germany and the US time to divide up the rest of the world after that.
The only way this would work is if Japan had invaded the Hawaiian Islands on Dec 7th and captured Pearl Harbor, still the thought of thousands of Tigers rolling off US production lines is an interesting one.
July 11th, 2009  
LeEnfield
 
 
What if Germany had turned all its attention to North Africa, took the Suez Canal closing down the Med to any allied force and then taken oilfields in the Middle East. Turkey and Spain would have know doubt joined the Axis then Germany could have attacked Russia with its full Army from two different directions.
July 14th, 2009  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klibanophoros
What if the Japanese managed to build a fleet of five hundred 'Yamoto' class battleships?

What if the germans followed suit with an improved bismarck class fleet of five hundred?

What would the Allied reponse be?

How would Naval warfare in WWII and in history be affected?
This is totally off the deep end. On a realistic bases some believe the US was close to maxed out @ the size fleet we had. Germany had a Continental view with emphasis on the Army. A better what if would be if they had completed 5-10 Bismarks, 5 Graf Zepplins & a properly structured Fleet that could have made an invasion of the UK @ least something other than a pipe dream. In the Pacific the Carriers ruled, so what if they finished several of the armored deck Carriers early in the War?
Next
What if the Ardense(sp?) Offensive had resulted in the surrender of Britian's Army & the reoccupation of northern France & the Low Contries? Would the UK be forced to quit? Would the US had to "occupy" the UK to continue the War(assuming the US Armys wern't captured in the event of a total reoccuption of France)?
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July 15th, 2009  
Doppleganger
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klibanophoros
What if the Japanese managed to build a fleet of five hundred 'Yamoto' class battleships?

What if the germans followed suit with an improved bismarck class fleet of five hundred?

What would the Allied reponse be?

How would Naval warfare in WWII and in history be affected?
I think the above question is a perfect example of what can go wrong when asking for 'what-if' scenarios - they need to be realistic. No country in WW2 would have had the resources to build 500 modern battleships.

What if Martians landed in Germany in 1938 and gave Hitler technology from the future - would he win WW2??
July 22nd, 2009  
Guaporense
 

Topic: Mobilization


What if Germany had mobilized for total war in january 1940 instead of february 1943?

I note that full mobilization takes some time, germany took 18 months to reach peak armament production in july 1944 (I think). In 1944 germany produced 19 thousand AFV, in 1940, less than 2 thousand. In 1944, 35 thousand planes, in 1940, less than 8 thousand.

I think that germany could have reached 1944 levels of armament production in 1941, given full mobilization. Having 15 thousand tanks for barbarossa instead of 3,600 would't help?

Also, the fact that in 1944 if germany wasn't bombed, armament production would have benn higher, for example, panther production would have been 7 thousand, instead of 3,800. Tiger II production would have been 1,500 instead of 400.
July 22nd, 2009  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense
What if Germany had mobilized for total war in january 1940 instead of february 1943?
Not possible, Germany was not USA, its industrial capacity and resources were limited, as was its population, instant total mobilization was not possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense
I note that full mobilization takes some time, germany took 18 months to reach peak armament production in july 1944 (I think). In 1944 germany produced 19 thousand AFV, in 1940, less than 2 thousand. In 1944, 35 thousand planes, in 1940, less than 8 thousand.
Thats because Keitel stramlined forced labor management, assembly lines were perfected and additional factories built, you needed a couple of years for that kind of thing so again its impossible to do by 40.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense
I think that germany could have reached 1944 levels of armament production in 1941, given full mobilization. Having 15 thousand tanks for barbarossa instead of 3,600 would't help?
Not a chance, they could maybe, maybe pull 5000 or 6000 vehicles at that time but they'd also give the Red Army time to finish the bulk of reforms, and the Red Army despite its incompetence when not caught pants down was a scary beast through numbers alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense
Also, the fact that in 1944 if germany wasn't bombed, armament production would have benn higher, for example, panther production would have been 7 thousand, instead of 3,800. Tiger II production would have been 1,500 instead of 400.
I seriously doubt that, you see German production capacity was ultimately limited not by the amount of factories but by natural resources, they didnt have enough rubber, steel etc.

For example the early Tigers would not be pierced by T-34/85 85mm gun even at point blank, later production could get damaged even by 75mm, thats how much German steel quality degraded over the war.
July 22nd, 2009  
Guaporense
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
Not possible, Germany was not USA, its industrial capacity and resources were limited, as was its population, instant total mobilization was not possible.
Okay, so do you think that the 10-20% figures of 1944's armament production in 1940 was because germany didn't have the resources? Why they had them in 1944?

Do you think that they were mobilizing all resources they could in 1940? I cannot believe that.

Quote:
Thats because Keitel stramlined forced labor management, assembly lines were perfected and additional factories built, you needed a couple of years for that kind of thing so again its impossible to do by 40.
All right, so lets see: in 1940 to 1942 AFV production increased from 1,800 to 4,200, then in 1943 it increased to 14,000 and 19,000 in 1944!

The jump from 1942 to 1943 and 1944 could have

Quote:
Not a chance, they could maybe, maybe pull 5000 or 6000 vehicles at that time but they'd also give the Red Army time to finish the bulk of reforms, and the Red Army despite its incompetence when not caught pants down was a scary beast through numbers alone. I seriously doubt that, you see German production capacity was ultimately limited not by the amount of factories but by natural resources, they didnt have enough rubber, steel etc. For example the early Tigers would not be pierced by T-34/85 85mm gun even at point blank, later production could get damaged even by 75mm, thats how much German steel quality degraded over the war.
And their european empire in 1941 didn't have the resources? Germany had more resources in early 1941 than in mid 1944, and in the latter period armament production was 4 to 6 times larger (in terms of planes and AFV).

The point is that in the first 40 months of the war germany was not producing what they could. This proved fatal in the long run. The question is: What if they had mobilized after France and Britain declared war on them instead of mobilizing after losing Stalingrad?
July 27th, 2009  
GreatestAlive
 
 
What if the Germans developed a production capability far more superior then the USA at the time? What if the Germans didnt treat the Jews as the main reason why they had their troubles in the past, and the Jewish scientists that wouldve left Germany and worked on the Manhattan Project (ex. Albert Einstien), they wouldve stayed and helped Germany with the A-Bomb.
August 5th, 2009  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense
Okay, so do you think that the 10-20% figures of 1944's armament production in 1940 was because germany didn't have the resources? Why they had them in 1944?

Do you think that they were mobilizing all resources they could in 1940? I cannot believe that.



All right, so lets see: in 1940 to 1942 AFV production increased from 1,800 to 4,200, then in 1943 it increased to 14,000 and 19,000 in 1944!

The jump from 1942 to 1943 and 1944 could have



And their european empire in 1941 didn't have the resources? Germany had more resources in early 1941 than in mid 1944, and in the latter period armament production was 4 to 6 times larger (in terms of planes and AFV).

The point is that in the first 40 months of the war germany was not producing what they could. This proved fatal in the long run. The question is: What if they had mobilized after France and Britain declared war on them instead of mobilizing after losing Stalingrad?
In the first 4O months of the war,Germany was producing wat it could and it layed the foundations for the production of 1943 :there was no Speer miracle,there was a Todt miracle :they did mobilize in 1939 ,building a factory is also mobilize ;they had no more resources in 1941 than in 1944 .If you mean resources =raw material in 1941 there was a blockade and in 1944 there was a blockade.
August 7th, 2009  
lljadw
 

Topic: no german surface fleet in 1939


A new post. What if the Germans had not wasted all that money on useless(iIMVHO )ships as Tirpitz,Bismarck,......... and used the money to build 200 u-Boats, could they have not starved the UK in 1940-1941 ? And why didn't they not it? Maube because Hitler gave Raeder all liberty and Raeder,not having learnt nor forgotten anything ,wanted a big fleet as in 1914(big fleet that was totally useless in WWI ,IMVHO )
 


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