What did the 5-day Russia/Georgia war teach us about warfare?

The Other Guy said:
Another lesson: The west now is as spineless as it was in the mid 30s...
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And what West should do? Launch a full-scale military invasion in Russia or nuke it down? Would it be more right or better decision, and would it REALLY establish peace in the region?

However, 6-point peace plan which now is being implemented in Georgia, was initiative of France. Imho the France made a best decision and did what should be done to limit and even end a conflict. And not US or NATO as such.
 
I agree the French have done very well in limiting this conflict and bringing it to a rapid end.
 
America sending in support in the form of supplies and transport planes was also a smart move.
This Sarkozy guy really seems to know his stuff. Probably the best thing that happened to France in a long time.
 
Easy-8 said:
You can do whatever you want now because the US is tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan. :jump:
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So, it's kind of like Mom and Dad are out of town for awhile........of course Iraq and Afghanistan are kind of in the neighborhood, Dad could drop in to check on things, or at least Mom...lol
 
Supostat said:
And what West should do? Launch a full-scale military invasion in Russia or nuke it down? Would it be more right or better decision, and would it REALLY establish peace in the region?

However, 6-point peace plan which now is being implemented in Georgia, was initiative of France. Imho the France made a best decision and did what should be done to limit and even end a conflict. And not US or NATO as such.
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Indeed. Sarkozy is doing both France and the world a lot of good. Besides, the US doesn't have to, and can't, do everything.
 
We learned the Russians have changed their troops are pretty well behaved and are not steam rolling all before them. We are up against smart people who know how to set the agenda they will pull out when they are darn good and ready. No one is going to tell Russia to do anything any more they are a powerful country in Asia and we are going to have to get used to it.


:tank:
 
I don't think that the Georgian government really expected Russia to get involved, especially not to the extent they have. I also believe that if they did figure in on any involvement from the Russians that someone would come to their aid. While I don't agree with the reaction (the Russian's), they've done a lot of things to help their situation. They've called everyone's bluff. They've shown the world they can bring about an overwhelming response to a situation in a very rapid time frame. They've shown the effectiveness of cyber attacks. They've been able to do all of this while thumbing their noses up at the international community, daring someone to do something about it. But no one will.

They drag their feet in signing a cease fire, then violate the cease fire. Then sign a new one and dictate when they will implement it, and drag their feet on that too. Russia could utterly absolve all of Georgia and force them under their control and no one is willing to do anything about it.

The gains Russia has made from this entire situation are immense and will be felt for a few generations.
 
As for the Georgian usage of their military:

1. It seems to me that the Georgians did not manage to cause any serious casualties to the russians. Correct me if im wrong.

2. This is not surprising, because the Russians had complete technological and numerical superiority. As we have learned in Iraq 1 and 2, and in other conflicts, 3rd class armies find it very hard to operate at all against 1st class armies. Im willing to bet, without seeing or reading much that the rusians destroyed the georgians command and control, intel gathering and logistics from the start. 200 T-72s with jammed or destroyed communications, no diesel and no info on whats going on are just 200 paper weights.

3. It would appear to me that all small nations should learn from Hezballah. I hate those guys guts but they preformed a small miracle in Augost 2006. For 6 years they built them selves up to fight with no command control and communications. They broke their forces to small units incharge of smal areas that knew exactly what to do. Israel destroyed most or all of their infrustructure, but the small groups, once activated needed no directions from above. They still took casualties in a 1-5(if not 1-8 ) ratio, but considering they were infrior in all possible ways, they did very well.

The georgians should have used small infantry formations and fought from inside urban areas with their existing ATGMs(which are supposed to be good). They could have caused high casualties and forced the russians into bombing civilian targets, thus giving the russian more bad press than even they could have handled. this is assuming ovcourse, that they have no concious at all:)
 
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Russia says troops will pull back by Friday

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian forces in Georgia will withdraw to a buffer zone by Friday evening -- two weeks after the initial invasion -- according to the deputy chief of staff of Russia's armed forces.

"By the end of the 22nd, we will pull back to the checkpoints line," Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn said Thursday at a daily military briefing in Moscow, according to a translation by Russia Today TV station. Russia and Georgia signed a cease-fire agreement last weekend that allows Russian forces to establish a buffer zone inside Georgia within a few kilometers of South Ossetia, a pro-Moscow breakaway republic. Russian peacekeepers have been stationed in South Ossetia for more than a decade under international agreements.

Nogovitsyn noted that only Russian armed forces can perform peacekeeping duties in the Georgia-South Ossetian conflict zone.
Russia's incursion into the former Soviet republic followed the launch of a Georgian campaign against the Russian-backed separatist territory of South Ossetia on August 7.

Russian tanks, troops and armored vehicles poured into South Ossetia and another breakaway Georgian territory, Abkhazia, the following day, advancing into Georgian cities across the administrative borders with those regions.

Top Russian officials repeatedly have said their troops are pulling back in accordance with the French-brokered cease-fire. But U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Wednesday that Russian forces remain in Georgian cities, and that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev "is beginning to sound like a broken record."

"First his troops are going to be out on Monday. Then his troops were going to be out on Wednesday. Now his troops are going to be out on Friday," Rice said.

"I'm beginning to wonder if the Russian president is ever going to keep his word, or can he keep his word, or what's going on there."

Washington has been pushing its allies to isolate Russia diplomatically over the incursion by suspending NATO-Russian contacts. In addition, Rice said, the world's leading industrial powers are not likely to meet with Russia as the Group of Eight in the near future.
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art.russian.soldiers.ap.jpg


http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/21/russia.georgia/index.html

So, I guess it's slowly cooling down. Good.
 
Negative, the Soviets are playing fart fart games because they know we aren't gonna do anything about it with so many lefties whining after combat even after we were attacked. Plus, they know we have an election in 75 (ish) days.
 
AikiRooster said:
Negative, the Soviets are playing fart fart games because they know we aren't gonna do anything about it with so many lefties whining after combat even after we were attacked. Plus, they know we have an election in 75 (ish) days.
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This lefty supports action in Afghanistan. Only. And if it came to Georgia, I'd probably support that too.

And yes, with the election coming up soon the Russians know they have leeway.
 
I leaned the VSS is a pretty common weapon in the Russina Army these days also the markeing "MC" stands for Peace Keepers
 
AikiRooster said:
Oh sure, MC = Modern Communists probably or more like it.
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More like modern capitilists they can teach us a thing or two about capitilism, look at the way the set up the market paridime to suit them. Cornering the market on natural gas in Europe.
 
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