What the axis powers did wrong?

i think main main mistake the Axis made was not cooperating. e.g. if the germans had gotten the japanese to attack the USSR through Manchuria during operation Barborssa it would have held back the Siberian divisions from going to the defence of moscow
 
i think main main mistake the Axis made was not cooperating. e.g. if the germans had gotten the japanese to attack the USSR through Manchuria during operation Barborssa it would have held back the Siberian divisions from going to the defence of moscow

The problem with this is that there had been several skirmishes between the Japanese and Russians during the late 1930s (1938 was the largest I think) and in every case the Japanese were hammered, I suspect this put them off any major assault.

The reality is that all the Japanese had to do was keep enough of a presence in the region to force the Russians to keep there troops there they did not need to attack Russia at all.

My personal opinion is that the best form of cooperation between the two countries would have been for Japan not to attack Pearl Harbour but instead launch an assault on British and French possessions in the region with the goal of knocking India out of the war.

Had this have worked out (and I accept it is a very big if) and if they could have kept the USA out of the war for another year or so the Axis would have had a far greater chance of defeating Russia before having to turn west again.
 
MontyB - your post pin-points the enormous blunder of Pearl Harbour, for Japan and the axis powers.

Perhaps this is the key to the question posed by this thread.
 
MontyB - your post pin-points the enormous blunder of Pearl Harbour, for Japan and the axis powers.

Perhaps this is the key to the question posed by this thread.

Their # 1. misstake was, in short: Taking a bigger bite than they could chew?

Have a feeling that I can aggree on that one.
 
Surely proved for the Japanese to be the worst military bite ever taken. No teeth left at all as a result. Not one.
 
Surely proved for the Japanese to be the worst military bite ever taken. No teeth left at all as a result. Not one.

Applies well to the Jerries too, there was little left, and less in the years to come.
From descriptions heard, I'm happy to never have experienced post-war Germany.
Suppose Austria wasn't much better...
 
OK here is a thought, a bit of a what if.

Why couldn't the Axis's greatest blunder have been not convincing Russia to attack Poland first, in other words why couldn't they have reversed roles with Germany claiming its stake of Poland as a defensive move against Russia.

This would have made it impossible or at least very improbable that Britain and France could have declared war on Germany using its treaty ties with Poland and if they hadn't declared war on Germany then Germany would have been free to attack Russia as early as 1939-40.

Hell theoretically this could have put Germany, France and Britain on the same side.
 
OK here is a thought, a bit of a what if.

Why couldn't the Axis's greatest blunder have been not convincing Russia to attack Poland first, in other words why couldn't they have reversed roles with Germany claiming its stake of Poland as a defensive move against Russia.

This would have made it impossible or at least very improbable that Britain and France could have declared war on Germany using its treaty ties with Poland and if they hadn't declared war on Germany then Germany would have been free to attack Russia as early as 1939-40.

Hell theoretically this could have put Germany, France and Britain on the same side.
As the possibility for the Germans to convince Russia to attack Poland first,was practically inexistent,one can not say it was a blunder .
 
I am not sure why the Russians could not have been convinced to attack first clearly they had already been convinced to join in and they had already attacked Poland in the recent past (and got their butts kicked, so they had motive).

It is really an inconsequential argument as we already know what happened but it makes for an interesting "what if" scenario as it would have made the Polish Alliance somewhat untenable for the British and French.

So perhaps their biggest blunder was a lack of foresight bought about by over confidence.
 
MontyB: The Soviets didn't attack first because Stalin wanted to see if Hitler agreed to the secret part in the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. If my memory's correct (it often is not), Stalin waited about 15 days after the Germans invaded. Remember the historical conflicts between the Soviet Union and Germany, along with their ideological differences at that time. No way Stalin could have confidently invaded first, and Stalin knew at that time, the Red Army wan't a match for the Wehrmacht
 
Applies well to the Jerries too, there was little left, and less in the years to come.
From descriptions heard, I'm happy to never have experienced post-war Germany.
Suppose Austria wasn't much better...


As a kid, ships I sailed with used to stop for loading/unloading when returning from USA/ NZ etc. around 1950/51 at Hamburg, Rotterdam, Antwerp. So I got to know Hamburg a little, and the social problems still in effect at that time, 5 years after WW11. It was a favourite call of sailors, nevertheless.

Of course, that would have been very different from trying to survive there.
 
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MontyB: The Soviets didn't attack first because Stalin wanted to see if Hitler agreed to the secret part in the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. If my memory's correct (it often is not), Stalin waited about 15 days after the Germans invaded. Remember the historical conflicts between the Soviet Union and Germany, along with their ideological differences at that time. No way Stalin could have confidently invaded first, and Stalin knew at that time, the Red Army wan't a match for the Wehrmacht

Yeah I know the story that is why I have raised this as a "what if" rather than describing it as the biggest mistake of the Axis.

I am sure that most of us would accept starting WW2 was the biggest mistake made so I am asking what if the Germans had convinced the Russians to jump the border first then they would not have started WW2 but they would have had a free hand to carry on East which was their (well Hitler's) primary aim.
 
Yeah I know the story that is why I have raised this as a "what if" rather than describing it as the biggest mistake of the Axis.

I am sure that most of us would accept starting WW2 was the biggest mistake made so I am asking what if the Germans had convinced the Russians to jump the border first then they would not have started WW2 but they would have had a free hand to carry on East which was their (well Hitler's) primary aim.

Yes, MontyB - in the absence of takers - 'what if' it yourself, and scratch it in the sand for me please. At last, the big picture in bite-size that even I can understand.
 
Not sure what there is to say, on August 25 1939 Britain signed the Polish-British Common Defence Pact which contained promises of mutual military assistance between the nations in the event either was attacked by another European country (There is no doubt that it was aimed at curbing German aggression but the wording was such that it was open to any aggression).

So had Russia attacked first and Poland declared war on Russia then Britain would have had little choice but support the Poles at which point the Germans could have used the same BS the Russians used and they would have got a border with Russia and no war in the West

Lets face it, the only thing that saved Britain from having to declare war on Russia is that Poland did not declare war on Russia after it invaded on Sept 17.

As said it is a giant "what if" but I think it would have been interesting to see which devil the world liked more in 1939 Stalin or Hitler.
 
Sweet. Strategic blunder of giant proportions. On the other hand, Mr Churchill, whilst clinging by his finger-tips did not blink, and called Ghostbusters.

Now if your 'what if 'had taken place, we come back to the same conclusion - that Ghostbusters would have done the choosing. Hitler or Stalin?

So who would USA have preferred to remove first?
 
Sweet. Strategic blunder of giant proportions. On the other hand, Mr Churchill, whilst clinging by his finger-tips did not blink, and called Ghostbusters.

Now if your 'what if 'had taken place, we come back to the same conclusion - that Ghostbusters would have done the choosing. Hitler or Stalin?

So who would USA have preferred to remove first?

My money would have been on the US wanting to get rid of Stalin more than Hitler.

So while it is a somewhat redundant argument perhaps it was the greatest Axis blunder of WW2.

Coincidently with my scenario Churchill may never has come to power as Chamberlain would have avoided war with Germany.
 
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