What an American said.

[Gator]

Yeah because real life experience is irrelevant if you aren't 60, fought in 3 world wars and flown in space or at least pretended you did in your profile.

Word on the street is some Profiles here are permitted to be intentionally misleading, which translates into what my understanding of the premise is as some Profiles are permitted to be intentionally falsified here.
So, keeping that in mind, and seeing how there is no official list for such, a list of who is and who is not allowed, I'd say it would be a safe bet to distrust any profile.... except ones own, perhaps.

 

[MontyB]

Word on the street is some Profiles here are permitted to be intentionally misleading, which translates into what my understanding of the premise is as some Profiles are permitted to be intentionally falsified here.
So, keeping that in mind, and seeing how there is no official list for such, a list of who is and who is not allowed, I'd say it would be a safe bet to distrust any profile.... except ones own, perhaps.

Surely that makes his argument even less defensible because if you can not trust the profile then you have no idea whether a person is what they claim to be which means that some of the "senior members" he so happily backs regardless of post content could just as easily be spotty 15 year olds using a parents profile.

I also struggle to see any reason to allow falsified profiles given that we can simply leave them empty of information or with the bare minimum of data which is a damn sight more secure than some mickey mouse story that can have holes picked in it.

I think the problem with rogue's statement is that it was like walking in front of a group full of pregnant teens and telling them they are all sinners damned to spend an eternity in hell for their actions. It's not going to change anything, it just makes the ones who can't travel feel guilty for it like they are not doing their part. Plus his last sentence made the whole statement sound like it was saying "If you do this all your problems will be solved!" which we all know is just untrue.

I didn't get that impression at all, I interpreted it as a statement encouraging people to travel and see the world which is not a bad thing.

 

[bulldogg]

its not too expensive and time consuming to travel abroad.

How's that impression now?

 

[Gator]

Surely that makes his argument even less defensible because if you can not trust the profile then you have no idea whether a person is what they claim to be which means that some of the "senior members" he so happily backs regardless of post content could just as easily be spotty 15 year olds using a parents profile.

I also struggle to see any reason to allow falsified profiles given that we can simply leave them empty of information or with the bare minimum of data which is a damn sight more secure than some mickey mouse story that can have holes picked in it.

I was a little shocked to find out about it myself. I believe you can still see the response to my post here http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/293668-post.html stating that such is allowed here.

It never cesses to amaze me though, as I see things, that some may have claimed membership in the Sneaky Feet Club, or Spies Are Us Club, and tell some people on-line what they do, so as to be allowed to make things up to tell others in the group.
Instead of, as you pointed out, not saying much about it at all, and or just leaving things blank.

 

[senojekips]

Someone here seems to be inferring that a long lifetimes experience counts for nothing, and that the average teenager is just as knowledgeable in all of these matters. Although I could be mistaken. Mea Culpa. Yeah..... good point, NOT.

Once again, I may well be wrong but I feel that this type of thinking would most likely come from someone who has perhaps never really had any real "life experience"???

 

[jequirity]

A classic example of why I would opt to give more credence to the older member's posting.

GIVE IT A REST!!!

Anyway, to the origional post of this thread, the guys a minority in his views, and a right silly bugger at that

 

[MontyB]

How's that impression now?

Unchanged:
1) Its a general statement as indicated by the use of the word "Too" and not a statement of fact or the "Too" would be missing.

2) He is correct in the scheme of things travel is not very expensive (thats not to say some people cant afford to travel) and it doesn't take all that long to get anywhere in the world which kind of negates the less vacation time argument.

Personally I think your targeting of his posts is more due to the fact that you believe he should defer to your opinion than it is about the quality of his posts which I believe are perfectly acceptable.

 

[bulldogg]

Fair enough, your opinion.

 

[Padre]

I was a little shocked to find out about it myself. I believe you can still see the response to my post here http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/293668-post.html stating that such is allowed here.

It never cesses to amaze me though, as I see things, that some may have claimed membership in the Sneaky Feet Club, or Spies Are Us Club, and tell some people on-line what they do, so as to be allowed to make things up to tell others in the group.
Instead of, as you pointed out, not saying much about it at all, and or just leaving things blank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senator,_you_are_no_Jack_Kennedy

You are a real worry if you are that unfamiliar with not too distant US political history. Fancy showing such ignorance. I find it hard to accept someone can be your claimed age, and be a claimed US resident, and claim so much knowledge on so much in the area of US politics and history and yet so completely and so absolutely miss the pun of my post on Obama, JFK, and Bentsen in the context of the thread you refer to above. You have been shown up by an Aussie on your own area of implied expertise.

 

[WNxRogue]

A classic example of why I would opt to give more credence to the older member's posting. How many vacations overseas, at the ripe old age of 17, have you personally paid for that were affordable? A round trip ticket to China, just the friggin ticket is over one thousand US dollars for one adult.

Did you think about your post first??

I would love to clarify my post, since it seems the point of it has been either misinterperated or knowingly twisted. The point was to say that traveling is something important for the growth of children all around the world and that it is something that should, if the means are available, be done by every family.

In reference to your snide comments about my age. Yes, I have purchased a ticket overseas. Yes, I know how expensive a flight to China is, but according to www.orbitz.com I can get a ticket to Heathrow (London, England) from Tampa International for $662 round trip per adult, and that is with 2 stops and with about 10 seconds of research. Im fairly sure with more research and by calling the actual airlines ect. ect. you could get an even cheaper price.

PS. According to the same site, I can get a round trip ticket to Bejing, China from Tampa International for $798 per adult, not the $1000 you claimed. That also took about 7 seconds of research.

Id be very gratified Bulldogg, if you would read my posts and NOT make it a mission to somehow attack my age, regardless of what I said or how you feel on the topic. I hope when I get older, I learn the value of everyones opinions, regardless of their age or background. By the same token, im happy that I have learned the value of actually doing research.

It's not going to change anything, it just makes the ones who can't travel feel guilty for it like they are not doing their part. Plus his last sentence made the whole statement sound like it was saying "If you do this all your problems will be solved!" which we all know is just untrue.

It was not my intention to make anyone feel guilty, just my opinion on how I think traveling effects younger children. My last sentence said that parents and teachers should make it a priority to travel overseas, which is like saying "your grades should be a priority" or "one of my priorities is to play football" That is not to say that it will solve everything, just that it can help you grow in many important ways.

 

[Wallabies]

For some the food bill and rent is the priority.

 

[Gator]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senator,_you_are_no_Jack_Kennedy

You are a real worry if you are that unfamiliar with not too distant US political history. Fancy showing such ignorance. I find it hard to accept someone can be your claimed age, and be a claimed US resident, and claim so much knowledge on so much in the area of US politics and history and yet so completely and so absolutely miss the pun of my post on Obama, JFK, and Bentsen in the context of the thread you refer to above. You have been shown up by an Aussie on your own area of implied expertise.

And your reading comprehension skills would be a major concern to me, if I actually believed you to be a Priest in the Holy Catholic Church.

Hey can I join in this love in? I'm getting warm fuzzies about Senator McCain too and wonder what might have been?

Anyway Obama, I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you ain't no Jack Kennedy.

What's all this fuss about Obama? I just watched his response to Prime Minister Howard's criticism of his Iraq proposal and Obama was struggling for words, inarticulate, and very unpolished. Was that just a one off flop or is he being over rated?

-

I'd like to point out that if the Priest is 41 years old, as listed in his Profile, then the Priest did not know JFK, and JFK was not a friend to the Milforum Chaplain, thank God.

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Gator, I believe he was quoting Lloyd Bentsen. Apparently I'm the only one who watched I Love the 80's: 1988 last weekend.

-

Well, my mistake then, but it doesn't read like he was quoting anyone, except himself.
I'll also point out that Senator Bentsen died in May 2006, so, I doubt Senator Bentsen said such about or to Senator Obama regarding any bid Senator Obama may have or planned to have for the White House.
And, finally, I rememeber the original statement from Senator Bentsen, clear back in 1988, as it happened.

 

[MontyB]

Someone here seems to be inferring that a long lifetimes experience counts for nothing, and that the average teenager is just as knowledgeable in all of these matters. Although I could be mistaken. Mea Culpa. Yeah..... good point, NOT.

Once again, I may well be wrong but I feel that this type of thinking would most likely come from someone who has perhaps never really had any real "life experience"???

Ok for shits and giggles lets say we have an average 17 year old teenager who from say age 5 has been playing golf and has a handicap of say 5 and you have a 65 year old who has just retired from his job as an tax accountant and taken up golf last week and still doesnt have a handicap.

1) Who are you going to go to for golf advice?
2) Who are you going to go to for Tax advice?

Life experience is only relevant in the field(s) that you have actually had experience, you do not automatically qualify as an all knowledgable guru on all subjects just because you have attained the age of 40, 50, 60 and you do not automatically know nothing until you hit 20.

Now given that all we know about each other is what we read in a profile and we now know that profiles can be made up apparently with the blessing of the Mods exactly how much of peoples "life experiences" should we trust?

 

[Damien435]

I don't think I have ever checked a member's profile, I base my opinion of the reliability of their statements based on the nature of said statements and the tone it was delivered with. Now having said that it is pretty easy to tell the difference between a 17 year old kid, a 40 year old vet with 20 years experience in the military, and someone in their 60's who's been retired for years. And in terms of general knowledge, I think age does matter, I know lots of useless information (I would rock the place on Jeopardy) but in terms of useful information I don't think I have the practical experience needed to make truly educated decisions on many of the issues discussed here, not that I don't try and usually fail.

Also, reading about the Vietnam War and the American Society at the time is not the same as actually living through that era.

 

[MontyB]

Also, reading about the Vietnam War and the American Society at the time is not the same as actually living through that era.

I agree but in many cases we are discussing topics of opinion not fact, if I want information on a specific topic I will happily ask someone with the relevant experience and I will put more weight behind someone with the relevant experience's opinion.

Whats happening here is like having 10 accountants look at an engineering problem and disregarding the opinions of 3 because they are wearing brown shoes.

 

[senojekips]

Monty, you hit the nail on the head with your own quote

Life experience is only relevant in the field(s) that you have actually had experience

That is what the whole argy bargy has been about, teenagers refuting the statements of persons who have practical experience in the subject, often on subjects they obviously know little or nothing about, other than what they may have read, or heard. I haven't seen too many teenage golf, tax, or similar "experts" being "beaten down" on this forum. Generally the subject matter has been something that it is patently obvious that the person knows little about.

I have not seen anyone here professing to be "an all knowledgeable guru". Most of the subject matter here is military related and I think that the ex service members would have a better grasp of the subject than persons who have not served regardless of any prior knowledge.

Profiles are a moot point. But, I'll give you a practical example of what I am getting at regarding military service and military knowledge. About 8 - 10 years ago I attended an ANZAC day march in my capital city. After the formalities a group of us Navy blokes went to a nearby pub where we met and talked with a group who intrigued me a little, Veterans of the French Foreign Legion and several army bloke already with their group.

Almost all of us were unknown to one another coming from different services and having a wide spread of ages. Now as you can imagine in a group like this all telling stories, a fair amount of truth suffers at the hands of a good story, you may read "bullsh*t if you wish.

After about ten minutes one of the German ex Legionnaires stated to a bloke who proclaimed to have served in Vietnam, "You are a phoney" and several others immediately jumped on the bandwagon having had their suspicions aroused but said nothing. To cut a long story short the cops arrived and he was questioned and found to have been the son of a middle grade Army officer who thought that although he had never served he might like to pass himself off as an ex serviceman. He had lived on Army bases most of his life and thought that he knew the routine, but it only took a few minutes for a complete stranger from a completely unrelated service to catch him out.

Yes, it is very easy to fake your Profile, but it won't be long before someone smells a rat. It is perhaps unfortunate that on forums such as this, some persons tend to exaggerate many things, experience, stories and sometimes their personality. This is no great hassle, there are also persons who seem to use the majority of their posts to cross examine the motives and veracity of others without actually contributing much in the way of informative posts, but I'm sure that we all know in our own mind who they might be and judge their writings accordingly.

 

[senojekips]

I don't think I have ever checked a member's profile, I base my opinion of the reliability of their statements based on the nature of said statements and the tone it was delivered with. Now having said that it is pretty easy to tell the difference between a 17 year old kid, a 40 year old vet with 20 years experience in the military, and someone in their 60's who's been retired for years. And in terms of general knowledge, I think age does matter, I know lots of useless information (I would rock the place on Jeopardy) but in terms of useful information I don't think I have the practical experience needed to make truly educated decisions on many of the issues discussed here, not that I don't try and usually fail.

Also, reading about the Vietnam War and the American Society at the time is not the same as actually living through that era.

Damien, I feel that you have a pretty sensible head on your shoulders, and having read your post above I will certainly read your posts in a different light. Well said that man!

Regarding useless information. There is no such thing, it's just hard to find the right place to use it sometimes.

On long sea watches in the boiler room, we often used to hold quizzes between the boiler rooms and engine rooms over the 1MC. Each space would provide 20 or so questions in turn and then the results would be tallied up. It helped pass many a Middle watch and filled my head with "useless" information. Save it all, there's no telling when it may learn you the title of "Registered Know all":smile:.

 

[MontyB]

Monty, you hit the nail on the head with your own quote
That is what the whole argy bargy has been about, teenagers refuting the statements of persons who have practical experience in the subject, often on subjects they obviously know little or nothing about, other than what they may have read, or heard. I haven't seen too many teenage golf, tax, or similar "experts" being "beaten down" on this forum. Generally the subject matter has been something that it is patently obvious that the person knows little about.

But this is also part of the problem, people seem to have a problem with the term "opinion"

o·pin·ion

(ə-pĭn'yən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: "The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion" (Elizabeth Drew).
2. A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion.

Given that this board probably doesn't have a lot of experts on politics, psychology or sociology (armchair ones don't count) I would suggest that definition #1 is what opinion falls into in most cases relating to these forums.

I have not seen anyone here professing to be "an all knowledgeable guru". Most of the subject matter here is military related and I think that the ex service members would have a better grasp of the subject than persons who have not served regardless of any prior knowledge.

I would also agree on matters pertaining specifically to the military however this attitude also spills over into the non-military threads and forums on this board, for example this thread hardly requires you to be a Duntroon graduate to have a valid opinion and I would venture to say that the bulk of the arguments on this issue are more related to political alignment than military service.

This is no great hassle, there are also persons who seem to use the majority of their posts to cross examine the motives and veracity of others without actually contributing much in the way of informative posts, but I'm sure that we all know in our own mind who they might be and judge their writings accordingly.

I have to admit this is one of things I don't understand about people I was raised to question things I either didn't understand or didn't agree with and I expect the same in return because thats how we learn and progress however it would appear that many seem to see their comments and actions as above question (and I am sure we all know who they are) which is a little bit like a red rag to a bull as I do believe that if you are not prepared to defend your comments/actions then you really didn't believe in them in the first place.

 

[bulldogg]

And your reading comprehension skills would be a major concern to me, if I actually believed you to be a Priest in the Holy Catholic Church.

For the record, Padre is a priest and he is in the Australian Navy. I have a backup bid of joining the Australian Army if my waiver for Uncle Sam doesn't get approved. Padre referred me to a recruiter and gave me his real name and rank to use as a reference and he checked out.

 

[senojekips]

Politics,.... leave me out of it. It leaves me incredulous to read the goings on of our politicians in their efforts to remain in power. I am a firm believer in "More Government, less politics", regardless of their orientation. End of story.

I have to admit this is one of things I don't understand about people I was raised to question things I either didn't understand or didn't agree with and I expect the same in return because thats how we learn and progress however it would appear that many seem to see their comments and actions as above question (and I am sure we all know who they are) which is a little bit like a red rag to a bull as I do believe that if you are not prepared to defend your comments/actions then you really didn't believe in them in the first place.

If that is your feeling, all I can say is that you'll never know how wrong you are. Just because one doesn't rise to your bait doesn't mean that they are not totally convinced of their argument, bearing in mind that the questioning of another's ideas and opinions can be done to either, genuinely acquire knowledge, or to deliberately try to deride the others point of view.

P.S. I do have reasonable comprehension of the English language without you quoting the dictionary at me, and I am totally aware of the meaning of the word in the context in which I use it. If perhaps you feel that you do not understand, ask me and I will give you the correct meaning rather than one you may select. Once again, I notice that you sidetrack the real issue at hand with meaningless inanities. I have pointed this out to you in several other posts, and it is this constant refusal to accept the implied meanings of others posts that has led me to the conclusion that you have no real interest in this forum other than as a "troll", and until I see some evidence that proves otherwise I will regard most of your posts as the work of such.