well, it's that time of year again :( - Page 5




 
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well, it's that time of year again :(
 
January 16th, 2008  
Infern0
 
well, it's that time of year again :(
thats a classic sea shepard stunt....yes it's risky but i personally applaud them for doing it.

disappointed in the story below


Quote:
A claim similar to that taken under Australian law to try and halt the slaughter of whales in the Southern Ocean cannot be taken here, New Zealand's International Whaling Commissioner Sir Geoffrey Palmer says.
Your say: Whaling protesters seized
Japan 'agrees to release protesters'
Australia's Federal Court yesterday handed down a landmark judgment ordering Japanese government-backed company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha out of the Australian Whale Sanctuary.
The sanctuary, in Australian Antarctic territory, is not recognised by Japan.
The decision, following a case brought by Australia's Humane Society International, found Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha had committed numerous breaches of the Environmental Protection Biodiversity Conservation Act (EPBC) by slaughtering hundreds of minke, fin and humpback whales in the sanctuary since 2000.
National Party environment spokesman Nick Smith yesterday said the decision raised the prospect of the Japanese moving their whaling to waters New Zealand held some responsibility for and the Government should take similar legal action, The Dominion Post newspaper reported today.
But Sir Geoffrey today said it would be impossible to take the same case here as New Zealand had not claimed an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in Antarctic waters in the same way Australia had.
While New Zealand had claimed the Ross Sea Dependency as its territory it also adhered to the Antarctic Treaty which put all such claims "on ice".
However Australia's territorial claim to land and an EEZ around it was enshrined in its domestic law, enabling a case to be taken.
He said that domestic law was contested from an international legal point of view.
Japan has dismissed the court decision as an Australian "domestic matter".
"The fundamental point to grasp from in New Zealand is that New Zealand does not claim any exclusive economic zone in Antarctica as a result of our territorial claim," Sir Geoffrey told reporters today.
"We don't claim it and we haven't asserted it. The legal issues between Australia and New Zealand are quite different."
Conservation Minister Steve Chadwick has said the Foreign Affairs Ministry has sought legal advice on the Australian decision.
Meanwhile, the Green Party is calling on the Government to send a frigate to observe the Japanese whalers and protesters.
Green Party conservation spokeswoman Metiria Turei said the latest events in the Southern Ocean were unprecedented and could see lives endangered.
Mrs Turei said the situation had become highly volatile.
"The New Zealand Government has sat on its hands too long and must now put the safety of both the activists and the whalers ahead of other concerns," she said.
"A frigate is the only way of ensuring that neutral observers can provide evidence in any further court proceedings and that cool heads are present now personal safety has become a very serious concern."
However the Government is unlikely to do so unless Australia - which is leading opposition to this year's whaling - asks for help, with Duty minister Rick Barker saying New Zealand would consider all such requests.
"The incident took place on the southwest coast of Freemantle in Australian waters. We are in contact with our Australian counterparts and will consider any requests for assistance should it be required."
Recently Conservation Minister Steve Chadwick said the Government believed diplomatic protest was the strongest position for New Zealand.
"Our position is keep at the table and keep Japan at the table," she said.
January 17th, 2008  
ASTRALdragon
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Ah yes the might is right argument, hows that working for you in the middle east or in fact anywhere in the world?
That depends on how you look at it and what your political views are but this thread is not about that now is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
For now species of whales feared endangered should be protected but further studies on their actual numbers need to take place.
Overpopulation can also be a huge problem (though I dont see how this is going to happen with whales any time soon)
I completely agree with you. Japan's opponents say they are using the scientific excuse as a reason to hunt whales. Environmentalists say Japan's limited hunts are necessary to gauge the population and migration routes of the various whales out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
My main issue with this is that countries like Japan have effectively hunted whales to extinction in the Northern hemisphere, now they want to come down here and bugger up our oceans too.

Whales, Tuna and anything else they want. What really gets up my nose is the fact that they claim to be doing it for research purposes, and our Government will not stand up to them and call them liars, saying that we are not going to accept it any longer.

Research is for preservation of the species, not the extinction of it.
And yet no one says anything about Norway or Iceland hunting whales either. Why? Maybe because they are too far away for Australia to do anything about it and Japan is just an easier target. It's interesting that everyone here that is totally against whale hunting is from or resides in Australia and everyone else is on the fence about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infern0
thats a classic sea shepard stunt....yes it's risky but i personally applaud them for doing it.

disappointed in the story below
You applaud them for committing an act of piracy? Wow... . You're right. I do not know much about what the Australian side thinks about all this or why, but what I really don't understand is that if Japan has broken international laws about whale hunting, then why isn't an international body taking it up with Japan? Why is it that it's one nation against another? The fact that a ship commanded by activists and not the Australian Navy has to chase down the Japanese ship means one of two things: 1) The Japanese have not broken any legitimate international laws and so the Australian Navy is powerless to act against them. Activists can't stand this so they must take matters into their own hands, which only makes their acts illegal. The Japanese are in international waters and are free to do as they please. OR 2) The Japanese have broken international laws but the Australian government does not care about it, and so ragtag activists must take the law into their own hands.

Some argue that the Japanese are using the guise of scientific research to hunt whales, but has there been any evidencing pointing to that? I'm not saying they are or are not, but I'm not going to toss wild accusations. Most of us are from civilized countries and our nations follow the notion of "innocent until proven guilty." So let's stick to that.
January 17th, 2008  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTRALdragon
And yet no one says anything about Norway or Iceland hunting whales either. Why? Maybe because they are too far away for Australia to do anything about it and Japan is just an easier target.

And maybe it is merely because Norway and Iceland do not come down into our territorial waters to harvest a species which we are trying to protect ???
I can just imagine the US authorities turning a blind eye if Australian fishing boats were to set our nets in your Salmon fishing grounds, or start taking Alaskan Crab once your boats had taken the years quota.
Quote:
It's interesting that everyone here that is totally against whale hunting is from or resides in Australia and everyone else is on the fence about it.
Fence sitters are a dime a dozen, they've never impressed me very much. Perhaps they are trying for jobs in the public service.
I see it as a sad indictment that you find people with a little moral fortitude "interesting" Funnily enough, in Australia, having a bit of moral fortitude, and not just rolling over for a country because they are a valued trading partner is viewed as a very honourable trait.

Quote:
Some argue that the Japanese are using the guise of scientific research to hunt whales, but has there been any evidencing pointing to that?

Yes,... not one new scientific paper has been published by the Japanese as a result of all this "research" they have been conducting for nearly 20 years.

It is also noted that the only piece actually collected for "research" out of a 50 ton whale is the ear plugs, a dozen of which would fit in a coffee cup, yet tons of whale meat makes it's way to the restaurant trade and to fish markets..... research???.... are you blind or just "thick".
Quote:
I'm not saying they are or are not, but I'm not going to toss wild accusations. Most of us are from civilized countries and our nations follow the notion of "innocent until proven guilty." So let's stick to that.

No,.... You may stick to it as you wish, but we will fight for what is right, it's an old, old Aussie tradition, we're funny that way.

I can't speak for USA, but in Australia, killing off an endangered species has never been recognised as the ideal way to preserve them. Maybe we've got it wrong? After all I'm just some old burnt out stoker, what would I know?

Oh,... and just before I forget, "I don't think that you referring to our New Zealand members as Australians will please them very much. Their country may not rate very highly in the size stakes, but the Kiwis could teach many far larger countries a thing or two about making their own way in the world.
--
well, it's that time of year again :(
January 17th, 2008  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Oh,... and just before I forget, "I don't think that you referring to our New Zealand members as Australians will please them very much. Their country may not rate very highly in the size stakes, but the Kiwis could teach many far larger countries a thing or two about making their own way in the world.
Hey call me anything you like just don't call me a pom.

Hehe to be honest being called an Aussie has never worried me a whole lot as I see it more a reflection of the other guys knowledge than an insult and its made even more amusing when done on a forum that actually shows the respective countries national flags and lets face it our histories are fairly well entwined.
January 17th, 2008  
Infern0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTRALdragon
You applaud them for committing an act of piracy?
no, i applaude them for a gutsy and risky action in defence of their beliefs.

and if two guys with a letter can count as "piracy"....well, that an interesting take on things

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTRALdragon
Wow... . You're right. I do not know much about what the Australian side thinks about all this or why, but what I really don't understand is that if Japan has broken international laws about whale hunting, then why isn't an international body taking it up with Japan?

AUSTRALASIAN ie; Australia and New zealand...

but thats not all, i beleive that the US is also involved in condemning these hunts...perhaps not as loud as they should be....but they are.

the reason that the international whaling commission has cracked down on the japanese is it's one of the most corrupt orgs on the planet. japan has been caught red handed in the past buying off voting member nations with economic aid in exchange for votes. i think it was tonga that broke that story once they realised they could make more money off tourism with they whales, than accepting bribes from the japanese

if it was migration patterns that they wanted, you can radio tag the animals, if you want population estimates, you take photo's....that is the established techniques with other less tasty ....er, i mean scientifically important marine mammals
January 19th, 2008  
Infern0
 
Quote:
A Japanese whaling group has accused the Sea Shepherd activist group of attacking a second ship in the Southern Ocean.
The Japanese Whaling Association (JWA) said the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society launched a small zodiac boat which attacked Yushin Maru No. 3 - the sister vessel of the Yushin Maru No. 2 - overnight.
It also accused the Australia of giving "limousine service" to Sea Shepherd activists Benjamin Potts and Giles Lane, who were detained on the Yushin Maru No. 2 before being handed over to the Australian customs vessel, the Oceanic Viking, yesterday.
"At 2am 18th of January, SS (Sea Shepherd) zodiac boat sneaked up during the dark night and attacked her sister ship, Yushin Maru No. 3, one of the Antarctic research expedition vessels owned by the Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha, by throwing 10 butyric acid bottles***," the JWA said in a statement.
Japanese government-backed company Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha president Kazuo Yamamura said the attack on the Yushin Maru No. 3 was akin to terrorism.
"We have handed two illegal intruders safely to Australian authorities despite that SS has been unlawfully attacking our vessels," he said.
"Nevertheless, SS attacked our vessel again during the night.
"Such action should be condemned as an inhumane terrorist attack.
"To ensure safety of our crew, the government of Australia should order the seizure of the Sea Shepherd vessel, the Steve Irwin."
JWA president Keiichi Nakajima said the Australian government had wrecked the efforts of the International Whaling Commission to ensure safety at sea.
"The Australian government has rejected and thus spoiled the International Whaling Commissions' efforts to ensure safety at sea and protection of the environment with its desire to give limousine service to two illegal Sea Shepherd intruders," he said in a statement.
"These two violent pirates have been provided a first-class delivery service straight back to the Steve Irwin via Australian customs.
"(The) government of Australia should have detained the two illegal intruders and held them on board the Oceanic Viking for investigation of their criminal activities, but it is obvious they would rather assist Sea Shepherd with its violent illegal actions against Japan's perfectly legal research program.
Mr Nakajima said Australia's decision to hand back Mr Potts and Mr Lane to Sea Shepherd showed it would rather side with a vigilante group of extremists rather than the international community.
Comment was being sought from Sea Shepherd leader Paul Watson aboard the anti-whaling ship, The Steve Irwin, and from Australian Foreign Minister Stephen Smith.

before you pro whaling guys get knickers all bunched up at the word "acid"....it's basically a foul smelling, but harmless stink bomb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid

Quote:
Butyric acid, (from Greek βουτυρος = butter) IUPAC name n-Butanoic acid, or normal butyric acid, is a carboxylic acid with structural formula CH3CH2CH2-COOH. It is found in rancid butter, parmesan cheese, and vomit, and has an unpleasant odor and acrid taste, with a sweetish aftertaste (similar to ether). Butyric acid can be detected by mammals with good scent detection abilities (e.g., dogs) at 10 ppb, whereas humans can detect it in concentrations above 10 ppm.
January 31st, 2008  
ASTRALdragon
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Hey call me anything you like just don't call me a pom.
What's a pom?
January 31st, 2008  
Del Boy
 

[quote=MontyB;392877]Hey call me anything you like just don't call me a pom.


Not a chance. More of a pom-pom!
January 31st, 2008  
The Other Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTRALdragon
What's a pom?
Quote:

Pommy

The term pommy or pommie is commonly used by speakers of Australian English, New Zealand English, South African English and Afrikaans. It is often shortened to pom. The origin of this term is not confirmed and there are several persistent false etymologies, most being backronyms.

The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) strongly supports the theory that pom and pommy originated as contractions of "pomegranate", Australian rhyming slang for immigrant. The OED cites a well-known Australian weekly, The Bulletin, which on 14 November 1912 reported: "The other day a Pummy Grant (assisted immigrant) was handed a bridle and told to catch a horse."[1]

It is said to refer to the fact that a British person's white skin turns red in the hot sun - as red as pomegranates.[2]

A false etymology (or "backronym") common in both Australia and New Zealand is that pom originated as an acronym for "prisoner of (his/her) majesty" or "prisoner of mother England". Although many of the first British settlers in Australasia were convicts sentenced to transportation to Australia, there is no evidence for this. Some proponents of this theory claim that upon arrival in the country they would be given a uniform with "POHM" or "POME" emblazoned on the back, but there are no images or examples of these uniforms.

Other etymologies which are unsupported by evidence include:
  • "prisoner of Millbank", after the area of London where prisoners were held prior to transportation;
  • it is rhyming slang for tommy, international slang for a British soldier;
  • an acronym for "Port of Melbourne". However, the term "pommy" was coined long before POM was used as acronym for the port.
  • comes from "pomme", French for apple. The joke was that the pale British would turn red, like an apple, with sunburn when they landed in Australia.
Use of the word "pom" remains slightly contentious. Some British people living in Australasia find the term offensive and demeaning, others find it harmless and amusing. Attitudes to the use of the word have varied over the years. In the 1960s, slogans such as "bash a pom a day" were heard on New Zealand radio. In Australia, it was frequently employed in the contemptuous phrase pommy bastard up until about the 1970s, when the wave of postwar British immigration to Australia began to decline; the phrase is rarely heard nowadays. The word has become so common that few Australians and New Zealanders see any reason to avoid using it, some even justifying the use of it as a "term of endearment". In December 2006, the Advertising Standards Board of Australia unanimously ruled that the word "pom" was a part of the Australian vernacular, and was largely used in a "playful or affectionate" sense. As a consequence, the board ruled that the word did not constitute a racial slur, and could be freely used in advertising. The Board was responding to a complaint filed by a community group called British People Against Racial Discrimination


Words taken straight from wikipedia

January 31st, 2008  
Del Boy
 

Thank you kindly - now would you please do the same for 'pom-pom'?
 


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