well, it's that time of year again :( - Page 3




 
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well, it's that time of year again :(
 
December 26th, 2007  
Infern0
 
well, it's that time of year again :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
Is there some place I or any of the board members can sign this petition as well?

http://www.gopetition.com/online/15815.html

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...014144,00.html

http://www.cgeorgemuller.com
December 31st, 2007  
A Can of Man
 
 
Signed it!
January 2nd, 2008  
Infern0
 
The Greenpeace ship Esperanza has arrived in Antarctic waters and has begun hunting for the Japanese whaling fleet.
Japan plans to kill 935 minke whales and 50 fin whales for what it says is scientific research. Greenpeace says it is commercial whaling in disguise.
The Esperanza is expected to be joined in the Southern Ocean by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society ship Steve Irwin within the next few days.
The success or failure of the crews' mission now rests on finding the Japanese fleet.
The Esperanza crew is putting in a lot of time and energy looking over sea charts to try to predict where the fleet will be. In previous campaigns, it has taken the crews up to three weeks to find the whalers.
Esperanza expedition leader Karli Thomas said finding the fleet could depend on a tip-off, fortunate spotting on the radar, or a stroke of luck.
"The Japanese have been down here for about two weeks, so I assume they have started whaling, which means it is critical to find them as soon as possible.
"There was a mixture of anticipation and nerves among the crew as we entered the Antarctic waters, but they are raring to go."
Greenpeace has come under fire from Sea Shepherd captain Paul Watson, who said he was disappointed the two groups were not able to work together in the search for the whalers.
"If we find the whalers first, we will inform Greenpeace of the coordinates. If they find them first, we will have to keep looking on our own because Greenpeace has made it perfectly clear to us that they will accept our help, but will not help us in return."
Greenpeace has refused to work with the Sea Shepherds, saying it does not agree with the group's readiness to use violence.
Both groups plan to harass the whalers for as long as possible. "If we catch them, they'll run from us ... We'll just keep them on the run," Mr Watson said.
The sighting of whales yesterday raised the Esperanza crew's determination to stop the slaughter, Ms Thomas said. "We saw some minke, humpback and fin whales. They were so beautiful."
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well, it's that time of year again :(
January 2nd, 2008  
ASTRALdragon
 
 
I don't see anything wrong with the Japanese hunting whales whether it be for food, economic, research, or cultural reasons. As long as they are not overhunting them to the point of whales being endangered, then who are we or anyone else to judge them? Are people just getting fired up over it because it's whales or dolphins? Last time I studied biology, chimps and pigs ranked really high up there on the intelligence scale and we experiment on chimps and eat pigs. Also, last time I checked, humankind has not exactly mastered zoology to the point of understanding the intelligence of all animals so to rank one above another is fruitless.

If activists wanted to save some truly endangered animals then they should head to China where they are literally destroying all matter of living species in the Yellow River and where only 59 South China tigers still exist.
January 3rd, 2008  
Infern0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTRALdragon
I don't see anything wrong with the Japanese hunting whales whether it be for food, economic, research, or cultural reasons. As long as they are not overhunting them to the point of whales being endangered, then who are we or anyone else to judge them?.

thats the point. it's a case of mathematics in it's simplest form. if a whales gestation takes 15 months, and the Japanese go hunting every 12 months, and half of their catch are pregnant females....out of a global population of 5000. how long do you think that will take to have an impact.

let alone the fact that calling these hunts "scientific" is bogus in the extreme. there is no science that can justify these hunts at all.

if it's cultural, let them hunt in their cultural hunting grounds by traditional methods...not in the southern ocean with factory ships

and hunting for food or industry is out-lawed....so where does that leave you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTRALdragon
If activists wanted to save some truly endangered animals then they should head to China where they are literally destroying all matter of living species in the Yellow River and where only 59 South China tigers still exist.

who says they're not? just because one group is focusing on this hunt doesn't mean there aren't other groups focusing elsewhere
January 3rd, 2008  
A Can of Man
 
 
Plus it's harder to fight the Chinese on their home turf. This is one that is winnable. Lets save those we can save.
Normally I don't like Greenpeace but I am for this particular operation.
January 8th, 2008  
ASTRALdragon
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infern0
thats the point. it's a case of mathematics in it's simplest form. if a whales gestation takes 15 months, and the Japanese go hunting every 12 months, and half of their catch are pregnant females....out of a global population of 5000. how long do you think that will take to have an impact.
I'm not going to pretend I'm a marine biologist or anything and quote random numbers for whale populations because realistically no one really knows. The ocean is vast and some whale species live in pretty every ocean out there including the freezing Antarctic. Even Wikipedia and my college marine biology books lists estimates with high variances. I will say, however, that Japan has a pretty good track record of not destroying the Earth unlike some other countries... With respect to this, I'm going to give Japan the benefit of a doubt and assume they know what they are doing considering they've had this practice for hundreds of years in their tradition. Who are we now to condemn them for this? I bet that if the U.S. were doing this then nobody would do anything about it. Most likely because the Americans would man up and fire on ships that disrupt their business operations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infern0
let alone the fact that calling these hunts "scientific" is bogus in the extreme. there is no science that can justify these hunts at all.
Speculation... how do we know they are not? Even if they only use 5% of the whale for scientific purposes isn't it still scientific? Plus, last time I checked, Japan was pretty up there in the field of science and technology (medicine, robotics, nanotechnology, and food technologies to name a few). How do we know none of this derived from their scientific research?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infern0
if it's cultural, let them hunt in their cultural hunting grounds by traditional methods...not in the southern ocean with factory ships
Because a group of men with bloody spears and a gored whale wouldn't look too good on the 10 o' clock news. Also, southern ocean is international waters is it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infern0
and hunting for food or industry is out-lawed....so where does that leave you?
Hunting for food may be outlawed where you live, but apparently not in mine and in Japan. Again, who are we to push our laws on other sovereign nations? Then again, I just noticed that you're from New Zealand and I'm going to go out on a limb here and think maybe your views align with those of your Australian neighbors? I don't know why the activists are gunning after Japan even though several other countries out there hunt whales (Iceland and Norway to name a few). Are we to tell the Japanese that they have to change their diet now and can never have whale again? That they are doomed to imported beef and salmon forever?
January 8th, 2008  
MontyB
 
 
Ah yes the might is right argument, hows that working for you in the middle east or in fact anywhere in the world?
January 8th, 2008  
Infern0
 
atral, it's pretty clear to me that you actually dont know too much about this situation. but im really just going to correct you on one point;

Quote:
Hunting for food may be outlawed where you live, but apparently not in mine and in Japan. Again, who are we to push our laws on other sovereign nations?

i was talking about the commercial hunt for whale, not general hunting. and commercial whaling hunts are banned under INTERNATIONAL law. japan is using the scientific loophole to get around it...hence the outrage of the NZ, Aust and US governments

do some reading about the Japanese vote buying amongst the voting members of the International whaling commission, and what (if any) scientific finding have come out of this hunts.

these hunts are un-necessary in today's world, japan is lying to us and thumbing it's nose at international law and agreements
January 10th, 2008  
A Can of Man
 
 
For now species of whales feared endangered should be protected but further studies on their actual numbers need to take place.
Overpopulation can also be a huge problem (though I dont see how this is going to happen with whales any time soon)
 


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