well, it's that time of year again :(
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Signed it!
Infern0
Banned
The Greenpeace ship Esperanza has arrived in Antarctic waters and has begun hunting for the Japanese whaling fleet.
Japan plans to kill 935 minke whales and 50 fin whales for what it says is scientific research. Greenpeace says it is commercial whaling in disguise.
The Esperanza is expected to be joined in the Southern Ocean by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society ship Steve Irwin within the next few days.
The success or failure of the crews' mission now rests on finding the Japanese fleet.
The Esperanza crew is putting in a lot of time and energy looking over sea charts to try to predict where the fleet will be. In previous campaigns, it has taken the crews up to three weeks to find the whalers.
Esperanza expedition leader Karli Thomas said finding the fleet could depend on a tip-off, fortunate spotting on the radar, or a stroke of luck.
"The Japanese have been down here for about two weeks, so I assume they have started whaling, which means it is critical to find them as soon as possible.
"There was a mixture of anticipation and nerves among the crew as we entered the Antarctic waters, but they are raring to go."
Greenpeace has come under fire from Sea Shepherd captain Paul Watson, who said he was disappointed the two groups were not able to work together in the search for the whalers.
"If we find the whalers first, we will inform Greenpeace of the coordinates. If they find them first, we will have to keep looking on our own because Greenpeace has made it perfectly clear to us that they will accept our help, but will not help us in return."
Greenpeace has refused to work with the Sea Shepherds, saying it does not agree with the group's readiness to use violence.
Both groups plan to harass the whalers for as long as possible. "If we catch them, they'll run from us ... We'll just keep them on the run," Mr Watson said.
The sighting of whales yesterday raised the Esperanza crew's determination to stop the slaughter, Ms Thomas said. "We saw some minke, humpback and fin whales. They were so beautiful."
Japan plans to kill 935 minke whales and 50 fin whales for what it says is scientific research. Greenpeace says it is commercial whaling in disguise.
The Esperanza is expected to be joined in the Southern Ocean by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society ship Steve Irwin within the next few days.
The success or failure of the crews' mission now rests on finding the Japanese fleet.
The Esperanza crew is putting in a lot of time and energy looking over sea charts to try to predict where the fleet will be. In previous campaigns, it has taken the crews up to three weeks to find the whalers.
Esperanza expedition leader Karli Thomas said finding the fleet could depend on a tip-off, fortunate spotting on the radar, or a stroke of luck.
"The Japanese have been down here for about two weeks, so I assume they have started whaling, which means it is critical to find them as soon as possible.
"There was a mixture of anticipation and nerves among the crew as we entered the Antarctic waters, but they are raring to go."
Greenpeace has come under fire from Sea Shepherd captain Paul Watson, who said he was disappointed the two groups were not able to work together in the search for the whalers.
"If we find the whalers first, we will inform Greenpeace of the coordinates. If they find them first, we will have to keep looking on our own because Greenpeace has made it perfectly clear to us that they will accept our help, but will not help us in return."
Greenpeace has refused to work with the Sea Shepherds, saying it does not agree with the group's readiness to use violence.
Both groups plan to harass the whalers for as long as possible. "If we catch them, they'll run from us ... We'll just keep them on the run," Mr Watson said.
The sighting of whales yesterday raised the Esperanza crew's determination to stop the slaughter, Ms Thomas said. "We saw some minke, humpback and fin whales. They were so beautiful."
ASTRALdragon
Active member
I don't see anything wrong with the Japanese hunting whales whether it be for food, economic, research, or cultural reasons. As long as they are not overhunting them to the point of whales being endangered, then who are we or anyone else to judge them? Are people just getting fired up over it because it's whales or dolphins? Last time I studied biology, chimps and pigs ranked really high up there on the intelligence scale and we experiment on chimps and eat pigs. Also, last time I checked, humankind has not exactly mastered zoology to the point of understanding the intelligence of all animals so to rank one above another is fruitless.
If activists wanted to save some truly endangered animals then they should head to China where they are literally destroying all matter of living species in the Yellow River and where only 59 South China tigers still exist.
If activists wanted to save some truly endangered animals then they should head to China where they are literally destroying all matter of living species in the Yellow River and where only 59 South China tigers still exist.
Infern0
Banned
thats the point. it's a case of mathematics in it's simplest form. if a whales gestation takes 15 months, and the Japanese go hunting every 12 months, and half of their catch are pregnant females....out of a global population of 5000. how long do you think that will take to have an impact.
let alone the fact that calling these hunts "scientific" is bogus in the extreme. there is no science that can justify these hunts at all.
if it's cultural, let them hunt in their cultural hunting grounds by traditional methods...not in the southern ocean with factory ships
and hunting for food or industry is out-lawed....so where does that leave you?
who says they're not? just because one group is focusing on this hunt doesn't mean there aren't other groups focusing elsewhere
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Plus it's harder to fight the Chinese on their home turf. This is one that is winnable. Lets save those we can save.
Normally I don't like Greenpeace but I am for this particular operation.
Normally I don't like Greenpeace but I am for this particular operation.
ASTRALdragon
Active member
I'm not going to pretend I'm a marine biologist or anything and quote random numbers for whale populations because realistically no one really knows. The ocean is vast and some whale species live in pretty every ocean out there including the freezing Antarctic. Even Wikipedia and my college marine biology books lists estimates with high variances. I will say, however, that Japan has a pretty good track record of not destroying the Earth unlike some other countries... With respect to this, I'm going to give Japan the benefit of a doubt and assume they know what they are doing considering they've had this practice for hundreds of years in their tradition. Who are we now to condemn them for this? I bet that if the U.S. were doing this then nobody would do anything about it. Most likely because the Americans would man up and fire on ships that disrupt their business operations. :-D
Speculation... how do we know they are not? Even if they only use 5% of the whale for scientific purposes isn't it still scientific? Plus, last time I checked, Japan was pretty up there in the field of science and technology (medicine, robotics, nanotechnology, and food technologies to name a few). How do we know none of this derived from their scientific research?
Because a group of men with bloody spears and a gored whale wouldn't look too good on the 10 o' clock news. Also, southern ocean is international waters is it not?
Hunting for food may be outlawed where you live, but apparently not in mine and in Japan. Again, who are we to push our laws on other sovereign nations? Then again, I just noticed that you're from New Zealand and I'm going to go out on a limb here and think maybe your views align with those of your Australian neighbors? I don't know why the activists are gunning after Japan even though several other countries out there hunt whales (Iceland and Norway to name a few). Are we to tell the Japanese that they have to change their diet now and can never have whale again? That they are doomed to imported beef and salmon forever?
Infern0
Banned
atral, it's pretty clear to me that you actually dont know too much about this situation. but im really just going to correct you on one point;
i was talking about the commercial hunt for whale, not general hunting. and commercial whaling hunts are banned under INTERNATIONAL law. japan is using the scientific loophole to get around it...hence the outrage of the NZ, Aust and US governments
do some reading about the Japanese vote buying amongst the voting members of the International whaling commission, and what (if any) scientific finding have come out of this hunts.
these hunts are un-necessary in today's world, japan is lying to us and thumbing it's nose at international law and agreements
i was talking about the commercial hunt for whale, not general hunting. and commercial whaling hunts are banned under INTERNATIONAL law. japan is using the scientific loophole to get around it...hence the outrage of the NZ, Aust and US governments
do some reading about the Japanese vote buying amongst the voting members of the International whaling commission, and what (if any) scientific finding have come out of this hunts.
these hunts are un-necessary in today's world, japan is lying to us and thumbing it's nose at international law and agreements
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
For now species of whales feared endangered should be protected but further studies on their actual numbers need to take place.
Overpopulation can also be a huge problem (though I dont see how this is going to happen with whales any time soon)
Overpopulation can also be a huge problem (though I dont see how this is going to happen with whales any time soon)
Infern0
Banned
The Greenpeace ship Esperanza is in a high-speed pursuit of the Japanese whaling fleet in Antarctic waters today.
The Esperanza had been searching for the fleet for 10 days.
Greenpeace said the whalers took flight when they saw the protest vessel.
The whalers are unable to hunt while on the run.
In a radioed statement Greenpeace Japan whales campaigner Sakyo Noda said the Esperanza and its crew was there to "condemn" the whalers action.
"Your so-called scientific whaling is a hoax, and has been dismissed as useless by the International Whaling Commission. Modern scientific research on whales does not require killing them, he told the whalers."
He said the Japanese people no longer supported whaling and it was time for the Japanese government to stop whaling.
This was Greenpeace's ninth expedition to the Southern Ocean to defend the whales.
- NZPA
The Esperanza had been searching for the fleet for 10 days.
Greenpeace said the whalers took flight when they saw the protest vessel.
The whalers are unable to hunt while on the run.
In a radioed statement Greenpeace Japan whales campaigner Sakyo Noda said the Esperanza and its crew was there to "condemn" the whalers action.
"Your so-called scientific whaling is a hoax, and has been dismissed as useless by the International Whaling Commission. Modern scientific research on whales does not require killing them, he told the whalers."
He said the Japanese people no longer supported whaling and it was time for the Japanese government to stop whaling.
This was Greenpeace's ninth expedition to the Southern Ocean to defend the whales.
- NZPA
Infern0
Banned
Japan's whaling operation in the Southern Ocean has been temporarily stopped after the Greenpeace ship Esperanza chased its mother ship out of the hunting zone.
View video
Crew from the Esperanza hailed the turn of events as "a good result" after pursuing the Nisshin Maru beyond the designated limits imposed for the Japanese fleet's scientific research.
Esperanza spokeswoman Karli Thomas said without the Nisshin Maru, the factory boat for the fleet, the other five ships used separately for spotting and hunting the whales were inoperable.
"We've certainly shut down the whole operation for the time being at least."
The six whaling ships scattered and fled when they were found on Saturday, but the Esperanza crew had decided to pursue the Nisshin Maru, now about four kilometres ahead of its Greenpeace nemesis.
The Esperanza was also tracking a hunter boat but the location of the others was unknown.
"Every hour they're on the run they're not hunting, so that's whales saved, basically," Ms Thomas said.
She spoke of relief at identifying the whaling ship on radar after searching for the fleet for 10 days. "Obviously the first challenge of the expedition is to intercept the whaling fleet in such a big hunting area, and the next thing to do is to stop the hunting, and we've done both so we're pretty pleased."
The pursuit prompted a call by the Japan Whaling Association for Greenpeace to keep clear of the fleet. "Past activities of Greenpeace have been responsible for vessel collisions that risk the lives and safety of our researchers and crew and are illegal under international maritime law," association president Keiichi Nakajima said.
The Esperanza's crew is preparing its tactics, including if necessary getting between the hunter boat and its prey, for when hunting resumes.
But Ms Thomas said the Esperanza would not share its coordinates with the other ship searching the icy Antarctic waters, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society's Steve Irwin.
Greenpeace has refused to work with the Sea Shepherd group because of its violent tactics, a stance that has disappointed but not surprised the Steve Irwin's captain, Paul Watson.
"It is disappointing and I feel quite irritated but there is nothing we can do," he said. "How can you call yourself Greenpeace and promote peace between nations when you can't even work towards peace in your own movement?"
Crew from the Esperanza hailed the turn of events as "a good result" after pursuing the Nisshin Maru beyond the designated limits imposed for the Japanese fleet's scientific research.
Esperanza spokeswoman Karli Thomas said without the Nisshin Maru, the factory boat for the fleet, the other five ships used separately for spotting and hunting the whales were inoperable.
"We've certainly shut down the whole operation for the time being at least."
The six whaling ships scattered and fled when they were found on Saturday, but the Esperanza crew had decided to pursue the Nisshin Maru, now about four kilometres ahead of its Greenpeace nemesis.
The Esperanza was also tracking a hunter boat but the location of the others was unknown.
"Every hour they're on the run they're not hunting, so that's whales saved, basically," Ms Thomas said.
She spoke of relief at identifying the whaling ship on radar after searching for the fleet for 10 days. "Obviously the first challenge of the expedition is to intercept the whaling fleet in such a big hunting area, and the next thing to do is to stop the hunting, and we've done both so we're pretty pleased."
The pursuit prompted a call by the Japan Whaling Association for Greenpeace to keep clear of the fleet. "Past activities of Greenpeace have been responsible for vessel collisions that risk the lives and safety of our researchers and crew and are illegal under international maritime law," association president Keiichi Nakajima said.
The Esperanza's crew is preparing its tactics, including if necessary getting between the hunter boat and its prey, for when hunting resumes.
But Ms Thomas said the Esperanza would not share its coordinates with the other ship searching the icy Antarctic waters, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society's Steve Irwin.
Greenpeace has refused to work with the Sea Shepherd group because of its violent tactics, a stance that has disappointed but not surprised the Steve Irwin's captain, Paul Watson.
"It is disappointing and I feel quite irritated but there is nothing we can do," he said. "How can you call yourself Greenpeace and promote peace between nations when you can't even work towards peace in your own movement?"
senojekips
Active member
My main issue with this is that countries like Japan have effectively hunted whales to extinction in the Northern hemisphere, now they want to come down here and bugger up our oceans too.
Whales, Tuna and anything else they want. What really gets up my nose is the fact that they claim to be doing it for research purposes, and our Government will not stand up to them and call them liars, saying that we are not going to accept it any longer.
Research is for preservation of the species, not the extinction of it.
Whales, Tuna and anything else they want. What really gets up my nose is the fact that they claim to be doing it for research purposes, and our Government will not stand up to them and call them liars, saying that we are not going to accept it any longer.
Research is for preservation of the species, not the extinction of it.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Perhaps there is a need to "research" Japanese whaling ships further?
I suggest 20ish a year should be sustainable.
Infern0
Banned
Japanese whalers seize protestors
By MICHAEL FIELD - Fairfax Media | Tuesday, 15 January 2008
Sea Shepherd
SEIZED: Protester Giles Lane cries out as he is tied up, while colleague Benjamin Potts, second from the right, watches on, already bound.
Japanese whalers in the Southern Ocean seized two protesters and tied them to the mast of one of their harpoon ships, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has said, a claim hotly disputed by Japan.
"They have assaulted and kidnapped two of my crew," Paul Watson of the Sea Shepherd's Steve Irwin told Fairfax Media as his ship chased the whaler with his men aboard.
Japan's Institute for Cetacean Research confirmed two anti-whaling activists were being held, but institute director-general Minoru Morimoto has denied the men were tied up.
By around 11pm Australian Benjamin Potts and Briton Giles Lane had been held for five hours on the harpoon ship Yushin Maru No 2.
Earlier in the day they had gone aboard the whaler to deliver a letter, saying they had done so because the Japanese had refused to acknowledge radio communications.
"I am not boarding your ship with the intent to commit a crime, to rob you or to inflict injury upon your crew and yourself or damage to your ship," the letter said.
The were delivering the message and then "request that you allow me to disembark from your vessel without harm or seizure."
Mr Morimoto confirmed the two men had been taken into custody, and said they were taken to a secure room.
"Any accusations that we have tied them up or assaulted them are completely untrue," Mr Morimoto said.
"It is illegal to board another country's vessels on the high seas. As a result, at this stage, they are being held in custody while decisions are made on their future," he said in a statement.
"The two boarded the Yushin Maru No 2 after they made attempts to entangle the screw of the vessel using ropes and throwing bottles of acid on to the decks."
But Watson said as the two boarded Yushin Maru the Japanese attacked them.
"First of all they tried to throw Benjamin Potts overboard, but he managed to get his way out of that.
"Then they assaulted Giles Lane. He seems to be in some pain. They tied him up incredible number of ropes.
"It looks like some kind of bondage movie. Its ridiculous."
- With AAP
By MICHAEL FIELD - Fairfax Media | Tuesday, 15 January 2008
SEIZED: Protester Giles Lane cries out as he is tied up, while colleague Benjamin Potts, second from the right, watches on, already bound.
Japanese whalers in the Southern Ocean seized two protesters and tied them to the mast of one of their harpoon ships, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has said, a claim hotly disputed by Japan.
"They have assaulted and kidnapped two of my crew," Paul Watson of the Sea Shepherd's Steve Irwin told Fairfax Media as his ship chased the whaler with his men aboard.
Japan's Institute for Cetacean Research confirmed two anti-whaling activists were being held, but institute director-general Minoru Morimoto has denied the men were tied up.
By around 11pm Australian Benjamin Potts and Briton Giles Lane had been held for five hours on the harpoon ship Yushin Maru No 2.
Earlier in the day they had gone aboard the whaler to deliver a letter, saying they had done so because the Japanese had refused to acknowledge radio communications.
"I am not boarding your ship with the intent to commit a crime, to rob you or to inflict injury upon your crew and yourself or damage to your ship," the letter said.
The were delivering the message and then "request that you allow me to disembark from your vessel without harm or seizure."
Mr Morimoto confirmed the two men had been taken into custody, and said they were taken to a secure room.
"Any accusations that we have tied them up or assaulted them are completely untrue," Mr Morimoto said.
"It is illegal to board another country's vessels on the high seas. As a result, at this stage, they are being held in custody while decisions are made on their future," he said in a statement.
"The two boarded the Yushin Maru No 2 after they made attempts to entangle the screw of the vessel using ropes and throwing bottles of acid on to the decks."
But Watson said as the two boarded Yushin Maru the Japanese attacked them.
"First of all they tried to throw Benjamin Potts overboard, but he managed to get his way out of that.
"Then they assaulted Giles Lane. He seems to be in some pain. They tied him up incredible number of ropes.
"It looks like some kind of bondage movie. Its ridiculous."
- With AAP
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Well no point in crying about that... brave work but if you board a ship illegally chances are you will get tied up.
Keep up the good work guys (protestors)
Keep up the good work guys (protestors)
senojekips
Active member
Silly, silly, they have broken a whole raft of internationally accepted laws. They have done their cause no justice whatsoever.
If whilst in International waters the skipper refused to answer their communications, that is his prerogative, except in case of the safety of human life at sea.
He had every right to treat the uninvited boarders as pirates if he so wished.
If whilst in International waters the skipper refused to answer their communications, that is his prerogative, except in case of the safety of human life at sea.
He had every right to treat the uninvited boarders as pirates if he so wished.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Spike is it true that you can be shot for illegally boarding a ship like that?
senojekips
Active member
Only where absolutely necessary, to protect the lives of passengers and crew, but, almost no merchant ships other than some Russian vessels carry firearms. (That I know of)
Mind you, half a dozen angry seamen armed with 2' pieces of 1" pipe, or jacob's ladder rungs could certainly make life very uncomfortable. I still have the ladder rung I was issued with when transiting the Sulu Sea, although we were told to only use them if we knew we could do it with minimum risk to the crew, e.g. the pirates were poorly armed or unaware of our presence.
Mind you, half a dozen angry seamen armed with 2' pieces of 1" pipe, or jacob's ladder rungs could certainly make life very uncomfortable. I still have the ladder rung I was issued with when transiting the Sulu Sea, although we were told to only use them if we knew we could do it with minimum risk to the crew, e.g. the pirates were poorly armed or unaware of our presence.
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