Are we fighting in the wrong place?

perseus

Active member
Afghanistan is merely a battleground, not a base for the enemy, so how can the Taliban controlled areas be dealt with? Will Pakistan need to be invaded or merely economically pressured into fighting them?

She said extremists were being allowed to control territory such as the Swat Valley, in north-western Pakistan. Giving evidence in Washington to the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Mrs Clinton said the situation in Pakistan "poses a mortal threat to the security and safety of our country and the world"......

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"I think the Pakistani government is basically abdicating to the Taleban and the extremists," she said. She called on the Pakistani people to speak out "forcefully" against their government's policy, in what the BBC's Richard Lister in Washington called an unusual move.
The government's policy was conceding "more and more territory to the insurgents , to the Taleban, to al-Qaeda, to the allies that are in this terrorist syndicate", Mrs Clinton said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8013677.stm
 
Kind of reminiscent of how the North Vietnamese used Laos and Cambodia to stage attacks and move supplies to the South.
Attacking those regions is inevitable and necessary.
But with no authority to actually move in... it might be to no avail.
 
Kind of reminiscent of how the North Vietnamese used Laos and Cambodia to stage attacks and move supplies to the South.
Attacking those regions is inevitable and necessary.
But with no authority to actually move in... it might be to no avail.

Classic Afghani mountainwarfare tactics.
Even if this was not part of their genepool the doctrine of the enemy will most likely change into the one thing that have proven successful against the US before.

Nothing new under the sun.


My suggestion, Economic sanctions on Paki untill they let coalition forces follow taliban/AQ elements across the border with the intention of closing with and destroying the enemy.
 
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It's definitely a weird place.
A while back there was a case where villagers started to join in on the fight spontaneously. Apparently not really Al Qaeda or anything, it's just that there was a battle going on and as men, they could not just watch as that would bring dishonor to themselves. But in a shootout between US forces and the Taliban, they couldn't really side with the foreigners so they sided with the Taliban for that fight. At least that was what was alleged.

But this is the hard way of learning this law of geography: Everything is connected to everything.
 
Taleban 'to withdraw from Buner'




The Taleban in Pakistan have agreed to withdraw from the north-western district of Buner, a spokesman says. The Taleban had been consolidating their hold in the district this week, sparking deep concern in the US.
The Taleban spokesman said commander Maulana Fazlullah had issued the order for fighters to pull back.
The US has has issued a number of statements this week accusing officials in Pakistan of abdicating control to the Taleban in the north-west.
The Taleban this year agreed a peace deal with the North West Frontier Province government introducing Sharia law in some north-western districts in return for an end to their insurgency.
However, they have yet to lay down their arms.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8015949.stm
 
Pakistan will have to make up it's mind whether to fight the Taliban or surrender their country to them along with nuclear arsenal. Look at the trouble there has been in the Middle East when the PLO was pushed out and went into Jordan. In the finish Jordan had to turn on the PLO and drive them out, what happened next was that they move into Syria until the Isaerlis moved in and then Syria thought it would be a good idea to control them
 
Difference is, Paki got nukes.

If the west even think Paki will fall to the Taliban it will have to be either precisionbombed or nuked to prevent these weapons falling into Taliban hands..A whole new can of worms when there are nukes involved..
 
Oh, heavens no! Last thing the world needs right now is a US deployment to a, nuclear(!), Pakistan. That should effectively piss off the rest of the galaxy. No thanks.
 
If things get real dangerous (i.e. the Pakistanis can't trust the guys guarding the nukes), something is going to have to happen.
Either way it's going to suck.
Hopefully it can be dealt with by offering the Pakistani government something in return for the nukes... but with India's nukes hanging around, it's going to be a really hard set of negotiations.
 
If things get real dangerous (i.e. the Pakistanis can't trust the guys guarding the nukes), something is going to have to happen.
Either way it's going to suck.
Hopefully it can be dealt with by offering the Pakistani government something in return for the nukes... but with India's nukes hanging around, it's going to be a really hard set of negotiations.


Did you read that before you posted it?

"IF things get real dangerous?"

What is NOT dangerous with a nation who have nukes and the Taliban within it´s borders?
You think the Paki goverment is going to trade it´s nukes out while sharing a borderconflict with neighbouring India who have nuke capabilities?

Dude are you spending Friday night at the campfire, holding hands singing Kumbaya?
Otherwise we´ll hook up for a brew.:drink:
 
The Pakistanis are probably guarding that nuke arsenal like it'll be the last thing left to defend after everything else has blown up.
They know well that if those nukes end up in the hands of the Taliban, they can kiss all of Pakistan goodbye.
Pakistan is in itself a very divided country. The Taliban operate mostly in the west but the areas that the government controls they probably can't mount something big enough to take the nukes. The Taliban's ability in mounting armed raids is one thing, being able to seize a bomb is quite another. The Pakistani government is probably just as worried about the nuclear arsenal as we are. Same reason why North Korea isn't selling any of its WMDs. They know if they do, they're finished.
And like I said, with India in posession of nukes, if the Pakistanis are convinced to give up their nukes, it must be one heck of an undertaking, probably with the threat of removing Pakistan from the face of the earth included somewhere in the document.
As for a full fledged war against Pakistan... our guys better know REAL well where all those nuclear warheads are. If a full scale war against Pakistan goes underway and allied forces fail to secure all the nukes, what's to stop them from giving it to the Taliban or anyone else for that matter? Assuming they don't use it themselves.
 
Agreed, and I don´t think any western troops will go in unless it´s a last resort.
Should that be the case the Paki goverment would have to be persuaded to let the boots on the ground know where the nukes are.
1. Secure nukes.
2. F**k up the Talibans.
 
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From what I know, it doesn't seem like this operation could ever work without the actual support of the Pakistani government since they know where the bombs actually are.
Kind of what I mean by when things get "real dangerous." That is, the Pakistani government is unable to contain the Taliban even in government controlled areas, the nukes are in danger and the Pakistani military doesn't look like it can defend them.
 
Agreed, the game-changer is the nuclear arsneal. I had laways heard that there were contingencies to go in and seize the Paki nukes, but of course the backlash would be just incredible and the effects wide-reaching.

I don't see the possibility of offering the Pakis something in exchange for their nukes, realistically. Not with a nuclear-armed India sitting right next door and their longstanding enmity. However, I tend to think that when it comes to Islamist extremism, All Roads Lead to Teheran, and I would bet you a dollar to a donut hole that the Iranians are up to their noses in Waziristan and Baluchistan and would just love to see Pakistan become another Islamic Republic.

Of course, we're still dealing with the fallout from the Cold War machinations wherein we gravitated to Pakistan and India gravitated to the Soviet Union. I think Nixon made mistake after mistake in regards to relations with India, all the way up to telling the Chicoms we would side with them if they attacked India to ease up pressure on Pakistan when Bangladesh was getting formed.

One thing I really liked about the Bush foreign policy was a move towards a strategic partnership with India, the world's largest "democracy", which I thought was a move that will serve us well for decades as the growing conflict in interests between the US and its allies and the Chicoms continues to foment. India is the perfect counterbalance to the Chicom population superiority over the Western-style Asian nations and allies, and Pakistan has always seemed a bit too comfy with the Chicoms for my tastes.

All I can say is that I have VERY little faith in the current administraiton making the right decisions when it comes to geopolitics, and find Madame Clinton completely inept and too concerned with her own image and without a clue when it comes to the really important issues facing us and our allies.

I think we ARE fighting in the right place, for now, in Afghanistan, but the issue of the Safe Havens is undermining us just like they did in the Southeast Asia conflicts of the 60s and 70s. Thing is, Laos and Cambodia didn't have nukes, and if we DO have to secure the nukes, I see Pakistan going the way of Iran, which would REALLY screw the pooch.
 
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