The War on Terror

I think one man's idea of terrorism is another's idea of winning by attrition. One person in a car can kill and maim 30 to 40 people when detonated at the right time and place. A sniper can kill maybe 20 to 40 people in his career. The wholesale slaughter going on in the Middle East is not terrorism, it is an all out war and has to be approached as such. When the decision was made to drop the first bomb on Hiroshima, the Emperor was warned of the consequences but chose to fight. The first target was hit to make an impression of what America was capable of. I guess obliterating Japan one city every three days could be called terrorism but the world called it war. In war, there are no civilians, just cities that produce soldiers and arms.

I say that to say this, unless we perform an act so destructive and horrible, we will be fighting an enemy that is so nebulous that we don't even know their strength. This will go on for decades and the human toll will be greater than a swift strike where it hurts. Falluja will have to be expendable and I don't mean door to door fighting.

We can't keep feeding our finest into a meat grinder because of some anti-war activists. The enemy is not about to retreat and in this extremely small World, if we do they will have a reason and force to follow us.
 
Still, when you attack civilians its terror. If you refer toit as war, than its a war crime. But only countrys can have wars...
 
Based on that definition and factoring in the types of targets selected by the perpetrators ... Murder is no longer a crime. Murder is religiously and morally acceptable. In fact, murder has now become an antiquated term with absolutely no relevance to anything. Might as well nix it from the dictionary while we're at it.

I do appreciate you notifying us all of this change. Next time somebody pisses me of, I can just kill them! Ah the freedom of it!
 
Well what did I tell all you guys before over here... Sweden is the Eagles Nest and Usama Bin Ladin sended the americans a message this evening. Sorry Im not a president but I have a message for Usama Bin Ladin with friends. Go ahead make my day my friend. If you think you guys was cool when you kicked out the Russians well come and visit me and I will show you where the sun goes up from my place in the forest! Usama Bin Ladin is on the ***** box and trying to make friends with me ---- Doc.S! If he has his commrades here in sweden and they think they are safe because they are protected by our chicken shit gouverment. Well I have a another message for the Al-Qaida. My gov may act like pu ss ys but you are making a big misstake thinking that we all are soft spots that turn our coats after your pipes old man. Forget it! They should not think they can attack freedom in one country and then make friends in another one without freedom fighters kicking there ass when the times comes. Im ready.... Im so ****ing ready man.... Im ready! come get some and I will maby spare some extras for you cheers!

Good evening and good night!

Doc.S
:viking:
 
Doc S I am all with you man but you do remember who is in power in our so called country.... They will probably award Bin Laden with a medal for his corageous freedom fighting or some other bs... :twisted:

I do hope that someone got the guts to stand up to all terrorist lovers here in Sweden.

:rambo:
 
self-censorship the day after :lol:

Sir.... .... Yes plenty of terrorist friendly organizations and alot of support when they bomb U.S citys, harbours, bases, killied american soldiers in Iraq, dead civilian Israelis and other targets around the world have been followed by eyes. And the listed terrorist groups over here are growing stronger for every day that goes. Al-Qaida is probably represanted under other names here in sweden so I would not be very supprised if there will be attacks in the future. Actually I would not be too supprised if that movie was made in some basement in Stockholm.

Most Sincerly:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
Terror for Terror sake

These are far right groups that the only way they can get what they want is to make such a pain in the ass of themselves so they have to be noticed. We should not tolerate Terrorist or the Gov't that support them. Somone said in an earlier posting that the only way to deal with them is much the same way you deal with weeds...root them out wherever they exist and make sure its done in such a way that the other terror cells will be scared shitless to try.
 
egoz, good post about terrorism. I can buy the FBI:s definition of a terrorist. Iirc, the UN recently tried to come up with a "water-proof" definition, but failed due to the legal matters.

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I can't for my life find the link, but I read a very intresting article/text about UBL and A-Q. I will try to write a resumé, but keep in mind that mine will be much shorter and filled with gaps.

What does UBL want? He wants to create a new Golden Age for the Middle East, a Kingdom that stretches through India down to Indonesia in the east, and include the whole northern Africa to the west. Religion is the unifying theme in his vision. The governements are weak in many of those countries and the people are not used to democracy. A far-fetched dream perhaps, but not a completly unrealistic one.

The west, with it's economic and military might is a problem, and it's cultural influence is a threat. If people gets material values over religious ones the battle is lost (to be very simplistic). So what to do? He have to endorse the "we" against "them"-feelings that are already present. The west is evil and is trying to swallow us and what we believe in. It is important to polarize the world, because it works fine in both directions - we hate them and they hate us back, and hatered becomes fuel to his vision.

Ignition. WTC. What could be better then a strike to the strongest beacon of the west? The possible outcome is a win-win-situation he figures:

a) US will fold in an internal and undecisive struggle. No real reprisal and UBL will come out as a clear winner - "The west is weak, we are strong".

b) US will strike back hard. The most obvious target is Afghanistan. UBL have experience in fighting in Afghanistan against SU, a Superpower that faild in this terrain. A few years fighting and the US will have to withdraw - an even more glorious victory! The west tried but couldn't.

None of these options came true. US took it slowly, used diplomacy to unite the world, relied on already existing resistance witch was aided by mainly airstrikes... only few troops on ground. And they succeeded, above expectations. Furthermore, the US used diplomacy on Pakistan and SA to have them, at least half-heartedly, to go after A-Q. UBL was out in the cold.

Then there was Iraq. A new window of opportunity opened. The scene was different but the possibilities the same. The west put down the boot with all it's military might and the fight could continue, and in the process UBL got rid of a dictator with a head of his own. If the coalition stays to long, the view of them as occupying oppressors will grow. And if they leave to early, Iraq may be to weak to uphold one unifying governement, and then UBL only have to make friends with somebody to have a new haven.

----

There is of course flaws in this theory, but I still find it reasonable and intresting. It is at least more reasonable than the one I've heard before - "UBL is mad and want to destroy western civilazation. He wont rest until we're all dead".
 
Doc.S said:
A very, very interesting point of view egoz :D
You see there are people that has some speartime to actually look into these attacks on their freetime so to say. But I got the impression that our different gov, and the media is trying to how do I say this in english, quarantine a lot of the information from the people.....
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the information is out there for anyone willing to look it up. the thing is most people aren't willing to look it up because they don't want to. i think the media does a good job of portraying the terrorists as murders. as for hidden government agendas and media coverups, well it's a complete possibility, but we live in a democracy where if we wanted the information we could get it, and we can vote government figures out of office. sure, i know the rebutal is you can't vote if you're misinformed, but whos fault is that really? public ignorance is something that we choose and accept, we don't have to, but we do.
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it's funny how terminology is being brought up. the difference between insurgents, terrorists, murders, they're all the same. governments give them different names to fit their agenda at the time. britain found that by calling PIRA members murders instead of terrorists it removed that sense of romance that came with being a terrorists. they weren't freedom fighters anymore, they were cold blooded murders. no one wants to side with a murderer of 40 people in a car bombing. it's also the only way for anyone to convict someone of terrorists acts. since there is no clear definition of terrorism, we convict them of things like murder and give them 40 life sentences. we have to remember that terminology doesn't make a difference only in the eyes of the uninformed.

mod edit:do not post back to back. Use the edit button
 
Yes egoz to many of the swedish people have chosen the path of public ignorance man.... I was listening on the radio when a swedish reporter interviewd a wounded soldier back in the U.S at one of the election places somewhere in the states. A women asked the reporter what Sweden would do to control terrorism? She asked the reporter the same question again and again and again without getting a word of sence out of the reporter.

The only thing you sweeds are good at is to build cheep furniture you have never done anything to protect or serve the democray in Europe! You was not on the beach heads in Normandy you have never done anything to protect or make democray live. Allways you have stand aside and let others do the dirty job. You have nothing but Ikea and Volvo! And alot of intellectual leftwing people that just love to look down on the U.S.

The soldier was representing a even worse story. Your neighbour countrys weapons FN machineguns killed my gunner, injured my driver severe and I was hospitalised for 6 months and what did sweden say and do when europian weapons blows us in to pieces. NOTHING! Absolutly NOTHING! You want to hear the truth about the war in Iraq?! This is the truth! Your weapons kill us americans. You shelter terrorists in your country. YOUR country are more anxious getting your so called citizens out of Guantanamo then go out and bann this terrorists cells in your country! That is more Importent for you!

But but but... The reporter sad.... But What! Tell that to the familys of all the happy dead civilians in 9-11 attack! Tell that to my dead gunner and my driver! The only thing you can do with this terrorists and NOW WE ARE TALKING TERRORISTS is to kill them! Because they just want one thing. CONVERT! or DIE! And I am a Catholic and I will never knee or be converted by this Barbarians! I rather DIE where I stand!

Well egoz I feel so ashamed I am really ashamed over my country and this people. I am ashamed to be a swedish citizen. I am ashamed over this *Piiip* country *Piiip* I am so ashamed! I feel so ****ing powerless that I dont find any words for it anylonger. I just want to do something! :cry:

F.U.B.A.R!

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
Well egoz I feel so ashamed I am really ashamed over my country and this people. I am ashamed to be a swedish citizen. I am ashamed over this *Piiip* country *Piiip* I am so ashamed! I feel so f***ing powerless that I dont find any words for it anylonger. I just want to do something!
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I know what you mean, man. These days I mostly feel embarrassed about being an American too. We should found a club.
 
Maby a club called The War on Errors could be something? :lol:

Sorry about this one but some humour would lift this place.. :D

A list of errors that would actually make some parts of Europe less independent of shelter, and reinforce the romantic ideas of our loved congratulations of our own groups of our nice ancestor reunion freedom loving freedom fighters of the world? "I think I will take a camera and go down to all places where they shoot, carve, and bomb innocent civilians and soldiers and take close up pictures" and start a anti-terrorist website.

This is the true face of the terrorist-network page? Then I will list all organisations that make money here in sweden and link them togehter with the pictures and then we will see if I can beat swedish leftwing and swedish gov controlled media. Today three Israelis dead, a short clip of an 16 year old Palestinian boy (Important to remark on that word since it is the standard word in the media over here, He was just a boy nothing else, and you forget what he really represents and that he was a terrorist.) killed them on a market. The media just told me that the PFLP whas behind it and nothing more. The same people who at the 9-11 event first said We DID IT and after a while.. On second thought WE DID NOT DO IT! And the Palestinian extremists filled the camps streets and cheered over the death of 2000 americans with joy. This is a fact because I tapet it all on WHS 9-11 2001 and I saw It again yesturday.

Time for some programming, on wednesday I will start the work with the site, and all help in form of pictures from killed civilians, soldiers, dogs, cat`s, elephants, cars, armoured vehicles, tanks, warships, UFO`s Santa´s bombed out sled you name it I would be gratetful for any PMs or e-mails because the true face of terrorism will be hunted out in the open, So people can visit a place and get the picture about what this war really is about, send me a PM on wednesday on good sites and places to find the photographs media never showed or the stories that was never told in the media.

I say no more pity for Terrorists!
I say enough is enough!
The war on lies has only just begun!

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
Doc.S said:
But but but... The reporter sad.... But What! Tell that to the familys of all the happy dead civilians in 9-11 attack! Tell that to my dead gunner and my driver! The only thing you can do with this terrorists and NOW WE ARE TALKING TERRORISTS is to kill them! Because they just want one thing. CONVERT! or DIE! And I am a Catholic and I will never knee or be converted by this Barbarians! I rather DIE where I stand!
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I'm not Catholic, but I'm with you here. I'll never bow my knee or be converted by these barbarians.



In honor of the Spartan king (Leonidas) who fell there, is engraved his response to Xerxes demand that the Spartans lay down their weapons.

Leonidas reply was two words, Molon labe. COME AND GET THEM!
 
End Terror

This is a philosophical war. An eye for an eye is to no end. Negotiations with reasonable existing governments and the creation of logical governments in the region is necessary to handle thier regional problems.
There will always be a revenge bullet from the ignorant,let them have the last shot and forgive like a good christian should.
 
gladius said:
Doc.S said:
But but but... The reporter sad.... But What! Tell that to the familys of all the happy dead civilians in 9-11 attack! Tell that to my dead gunner and my driver! The only thing you can do with this terrorists and NOW WE ARE TALKING TERRORISTS is to kill them! Because they just want one thing. CONVERT! or DIE! And I am a Catholic and I will never knee or be converted by this Barbarians! I rather DIE where I stand!
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I'm not Catholic, but I'm with you here. I'll never bow my knee or be converted by these barbarians.
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Let's not turn this into a religious war. We have enough religious fanatics misinterpreting religious writing to suit their own needs. It's a land war, simple as that.

Redneck said:
Alright, the national pity parties end now.
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little overmoderated don't you think? i didn't see the issue becoming a pity session. just a thought...
 
egoz said:
Let's not turn this into a religious war. We have enough religious fanatics misinterpreting religious writing to suit their own needs. It's a land war, simple as that.
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It IS a religious (or claimed to be a religious) war on one side, unless I am very much mistaken about the meaning of Jihad.

Redneck said:
Alright, the national pity parties end now.
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little overmoderated don't you think? i didn't see the issue becoming a pity session. just a thought...
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Those posts were off-topic and headed in a bad direction.
It is not your job to critique my or any other mod's moderating.
 
The war is only religious because the Islamic extremists make it religious. The reality of it is that they DON'T want to convert anyone. It's a misconception, Cindy Combs covers the topic well in Terrorism in the 21st Century. A good read for the whole war on terrorism thing. Like I said, it's a land battle. They use religion to get more Islamic recruits into their ranks. I don't think we should suddenly make it religious by saying it's Christians vs Islamics. That's asking for trouble, just incase we don't have enough of it.

But as an American aren't we being hypocritical of the whole thing? As soon as the colonists came into the states their goal was to convert as many indians into christians as they could. But suddenly since (assuming the converting people to islam theory is correct) the Islamic extremists want to do that to "us" we start a war over it.
 
I believe in the view of the anti-US forces in Iraq, they see this war as Religious war, something like new Christian crusades invading their lands.

But I believe in the view of Western (mainly US), it is just a war, nothing to do with Religion.
 
FlyingFrog said:
I believe in the view of the anti-US forces in Iraq, they see this war as Religious war, something like new Christian crusades invading their lands.

But I believe in the view of Western (mainly US), it is just a war, nothing to do with Religion.
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Well all I wanted to point out was that the Islamic extremists were using Jihad and religion as a recruiting tool. I've seen al-Qaeda recruitings tapes. They try to make Americans look like money hungry war mongers (they also throw in clips of Popeye beating up a Arabs, if anyone remembers that episode where he's in the desert). They force a belief upon their youth that America comes to invade the Holy Land to drill for oil and turn it into a Las Vegas, or NY. Our goal is to make them understand that it isn't about oil or money and that we are there as liberators and protectors. But this is proving difficult since we can't even prove to Americans that this is what we are doing.
 
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