The War on Religion in the US




 
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Boots
 
January 14th, 2005  
Duty Honor Country
 
 

Topic: The War on Religion in the US


The war on religion has been raging in the US for quite some time. The Boy Scouts of America have been enduring this fight for quite some time. Time and time again, the US courts have said the BSA is a private organization and can restrict membership on the grounds of believing in God. Then battles went to those who support the BSA. San Diego was sued for allowing the BSA to use public parks. Now the Boy Scouts cannot use public parks because of it "violates" the seperation between church and state. Then came the "Under God" incident in San Fransico. I watched as a democrat lead congess in saying the pledge of Allegiance (on the microphone) and did not say "under God."

NOW someone is suing to keep a minister from prayer at President Bush's.

"Michael Newdow -- best known for trying to remove "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance -- told U.S. District Judge John Bates that allowing an overtly Christian prayer at the Jan. 20 ceremony violates the Constitution by forcing him to accept unwanted religious beliefs."
CNN

when does all this stupid crap end!!!!

sorry for being blunt. I have kind of lost it on this matter.
January 14th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
It's just the current thing. "Look at me, I'm liberal!" when in fact they are anything but. Pleading for tolerance while being intolerant is mutually exclusive. After awhile when it's lost it's novelty this kind of thing will die down. The core of America hasn't lost their beliefs. Those that think otherwise are living in a fool's paradise.
January 14th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Under God was added in the 40's or 50's. Not that I have a problem with it being there.

My thinking is why is the only religion singled out the Christian Denominations. Under the idea it might offend other religions?
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Boots
January 15th, 2005  
dougal
 
 
Religion isnt terrorism
January 15th, 2005  
CavScout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougal
Religion isnt terrorism
I think it is.



Let's see what kind of storm that precipitates.
January 15th, 2005  
Themrose89
 
Correction, fanatic psychotic religon can be turned toward terrorism, but more often than not religeon is the banner under which many terrorists pretend, so that they can carry on their terroristic actions.
January 15th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
religion can be such a contentious issues so i'll try to state my position as clearly as i can;

issue one; with the pledge of allegiance, what if the person taking the pledge doesn't believe in god...wouldn't that make the whole pledge void?

issue two; i believe a govt should remove itself from any thing to do with religion...religion is a personal believe structure, and has nothing to do with the functions of government. in an ideal world no-one should be descriminated because of their beliefs.

as an aside, the NZ boy scouts say the lords prayer etc but there is an exemption for those who do not wish to participate in this
January 15th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
As to your issues:

One) I already stated that I had no problem with people who don't believe in God not saying that part. The whole phrase is "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." So deleting the words "under God" hardly obviates the oath and as 03USMC has already pointed out, those words weren't even added until about 50 years ago. I don't think that anybody who took the oath prior to that would be seen as disloyal.

Two) Seperation of church and state is provided for in our Constitution. At what line is that drawn is the crux of the current contention about it all that's now going on. Many feel that there should be absolutely not the faintest hint of religion in our government while many more think that it gets to the point of ridiculousness what some people feel is an infringment of the church on the state. Where do we draw the line? As somebody pointed out in another thread, why am I not allowed to mention God in so many areas that apply to the state but if I'm called to court to swear an oath of testimony I must put my hand on the Bible? Why are Bibles not allowed in schools but they are in prison? We've managed to come 228 years now without the church controlling this country's government. I think it works fine as it is.
January 15th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge_7
As to your issues:

One) I already stated that I had no problem with people who don't believe in God not saying that part. The whole phrase is "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." So deleting the words "under God" hardly obviates the oath and as 03USMC has already pointed out, those words weren't even added until about 50 years ago. I don't think that anybody who took the oath prior to that would be seen as disloyal.

Two) Seperation of church and state is provided for in our Constitution. At what line is that drawn is the crux of the current contention about it all that's now going on. Many feel that there should be absolutely not the faintest hint of religion in our government while many more think that it gets to the point of ridiculousness what some people feel is an infringment of the church on the state. Where do we draw the line? As somebody pointed out in another thread, why am I not allowed to mention God in so many areas that apply to the state but if I'm called to court to swear an oath of testimony I must put my hand on the Bible? Why are Bibles not allowed in schools but they are in prison? We've managed to come 228 years now without the church controlling this country's government. I think it works fine as it is.
very informative, and i agree with you...esp
"why am I not allowed to mention God in so many areas that apply to the state but if I'm called to court to swear an oath of testimony I must put my hand on the Bible? Why are Bibles not allowed in schools but they are in prison? We've managed to come 228 years now without the church controlling this country's government."

and this is coming from an atheist! i like to think (at least in my own experience here in NZ) that no one is descriminated by the Govt because of their religion...i know that in court you are made to swear on a bible koran or whatever is appropriate. i know some one who swore on the NZ flag
January 15th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Nice idea. I think swearing on the flag would be quite acceptable for those who do not believe in God. Swearing on the Koran or Torah, etc. might also be acceptable for those of each particular faith.