MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Umm and how would that vary from say the aims of the Crusades or say the Iquisition?
War again...?
Umm and how would that vary from say the aims of the Crusades or say the Iquisition?
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
The Western mindset is a odd one, we tend to think that the world follows our lead and just because we declare something a done deal everyone will follow suit, for the last 5000 years of recorded human history religions have been trying to wipe each other out why do we assume that just because we have given up on the idea every other religion will follow suit?
Hell we have parts of the world still carrying grudges from hundreds of years ago (Yugoslavia for example).
Considering the time frame, I think it varys quite a bit.
Maybe its time for the conservative Muslim world to have a reformation. Or at least an attempt to broaden their minds about religeon. Especially a religeon which makes converts mainly with the sword.
By the way, as far as the Wahabs and the real fanatics are concerned, you are an infidel dog. They really dont care if you seem sensitive to their cause or seem to understand their plight.
senojekips
Active member
When did you last deal with any Wahabi? I used to deal with the Mutaween regularly in places like Ras Tanurah and in four years never had any great problems, just remember, it's their country, therefore they make the rules. It's sometimes a pity our governments weren't as clear cut with foreigners, we wouldn't have all this crap where muslims stop our practices because it offends their sensibilities.
If you want to play the ignorant infidel in their country, you just might cop a crack across the back with a camel cane, but obey their rules and there's rarely any problems.
They are not my type of people, but it is their country.
ObjSRgtLw
Active member
Amen to that.
senojekips
Active member
Is it true that the Israelis never honoured the ceasefire from day one?
It is being reported that although the Palestinians held the peace for four of the six months designated for the cease fire the Israelis never upheld their end of it and kept the borders closed. This was what drove the Palestinians to tunnel into Egypt for all of their needs. Israel also declared a special security zone within Gaza which allowed them to shoot at farmers trying to access their fields. It was Israels refusal to honour their end of the agreement that caused extremist elements of Hamas to start firing rockets into Israel
It goes on and on.
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6956
It is being reported that although the Palestinians held the peace for four of the six months designated for the cease fire the Israelis never upheld their end of it and kept the borders closed. This was what drove the Palestinians to tunnel into Egypt for all of their needs. Israel also declared a special security zone within Gaza which allowed them to shoot at farmers trying to access their fields. It was Israels refusal to honour their end of the agreement that caused extremist elements of Hamas to start firing rockets into Israel
It goes on and on.
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6956
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I watched Al Jazeera and they've actually not said anything of that sort as far as I'm aware. I don't get it here but we did get it in Indonesia. Obviously it was pretty one sided but they didn't say anything of the sort at the beginning of the conflict (the first few days) about completely closed checkpoints and Israelis shooting at the Palestinians during the cease fire. I'd imagine if those were true, they of all networks would have reported it.
Even if they were realistic speculations they may have suggested the idea. But no such luck.
Even if they were realistic speculations they may have suggested the idea. But no such luck.
I'm not saying the Crusades or the Inquisition was right, you come to me ramming religion down my throat I will probably try to kill you too
But the Muslim religion has tried to kill non Muslims ever since they first met non Muslims.
I don't know maybe its just me, but I have to say I stand with Israel because every time I have ever been to Israel the Israelis haven't tried to kill me, every time I have ever dealt with Muslims outside of the US they have shot missiles at me, blew up the barracks next to me, and tried to kill me in the name of a god I don't even believe in. Therefore I tend to be friends with people that do NOT try to kill me
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senojekips
Active member
Well, upon reflection, it has been obvious that the Israelis have kept the border closed as there have been numerous reports over the last three or four months (maybe more) about the Palestinian tunnels into Egyptian territory to get food and gas etc. There have also been News articles about how the Palestinian fishermen were confined to port as Israeli patrol boats were sinking them if they put to sea..
To me that gives credence to the Palestinian argument.
Thats a classical example of saying somthing thats true yet somehow twisting it compltely. "food and gas etc"...The etc is weapons. RPGs, High Explosives, 122mm Grad rockets. why dont you mention that part? There is a reason why Israel dose not allow anyone out of Gaza and into Israel, and that reason is clear for all to see. We left Gaza and so we were not responsible of feeding and taking care of them. My country dosent have to feed its enemies. Even so we did, and even during fighting allow "humaneterian aid" to go into Gaza. We also allowed Palestinians to come into Israel in ergent medical situations.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
This is true. Two areas of high tensions can hardly expect to have a "visit for tourism" sort of border relationship.
EagleHammer
Active member
Well everybody knows if you push someone inte a corner they will attack.
Second: ´They probably wouldn't have sodge a food and medical shortage if Israel hadn't taken more land then was given to them. And i don't need to hear that Jews lived there first sens i have heard it all before.
Somehow I think that both you and I know that even if they had the whole land they would be poor and hungry. Their leadership is robing them blind. As for Israel taking more land, it was not Israel that decided to have war, it was the arabs. You cant start wars, loose them, loose land and than whine for 60 years. Time to compremise. Stop whining. Stop making excuses. Make peace.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
They could have the whole middle east and still they'd be poor.
senojekips
Active member
So it's easier to just stop all supplies and let people starve than to look in the backs of the trucks to see if they are carrying weapons? trained dogs will soon sniff out HE and I'm sure that 122mm rockets etc would not be hard to spot in amongst the vegetables and other food supplies. You must think that the people of the world are absolutely stupid if you want them to believe that. No, you don't have to feed them, but you are not supposed to shoot up their fishing vessels or other vessels trying to go and get food either. The truth is, Israel is actually trying to turn one of the most densely populated areas of the middle east into a concentration camp, knowing that the population would start to fight and give the israelis a reason to further wreck their economy and infrastructure. It is no less than piecemeal genocide.
The crossings that have been closed are between Gaza and Israel, not Gaza and Syria, so why would the Israelis need to stop weapons coming from Israel? Surely you are not expecting me to believe that the Israelis are allowing other Arab nations to truck weapons across their borders for Gaza.
The fact is, that Israel did not uphold their end of the ceasefire agreement, the Palestinians lost patience with them and started to send over a few rocket propelled reminders. Those rockets killed less than 30 Israelis, in return, Israel has flattened most of Gazas infrastructure killing over 400 innocent civilians, Oh, and one known terrorist along with 19 other civilians that just happened to be in the same housing complex.
[Sarcasm] Yep,... seems OK to me. [/sarcasm]
There is now news about people coming forward stating that this was all planned prior to the ceasefire ever being implemented, and that it was never intended by Israel that it should work. It all seems to be going according to plan.
You've never learnt have you?
People would rather be poor and hungry in their own land, than being killed and pushed off their land by a group of outsiders who were given the land by a third party who didn't own it in the first place.
Perhaps they just feel that is better to be robbed, than being robbed AND killed.
No, the Palestinians were merely trying to keep what was theirs, I think that's a good enough reason for them to fight, and the fact that you have beaten them still does not mean the land is yours. You talk of compromise, If I were to steal your house, and you decided to fight me and i won,
(1) That does not make your house belong to me.
(2) If I then say "Oh well,... give me your car too and you can be my slave and we'll call it a compromise" That is not a compromise, that is living death. Believe me, they will not accept it, even if Hamas accepted it, another group would not and would take their place, You know it, and I know it, and we both know why.
All of this, and you still can't understand why they hate you and go on fighting??? At the very best, you may drive them underground, but the Israelis will live forever in fear of massive retribution. You will never be able to go unarmed or go out knowing that you will come home, that is the nature of the war you are bringing upon the Israeli people. Your "Berlin wall" will keep out large numbers of small attacks, but they will only need one big target every now and again and you will eventually find out that you can't stop everything. Also this is just making them up the ante., attacks will be fewer, so they will make sure they are more worth while.
Your current policies are the ones most likely to be the target of something really nasty like a Dirty bomb, or chemical/bacteriolocal warfare, you are far easier to get at than the US and surrounded by a Arabs with rich uncles. There are plenty of arabs willing to sacrifice their lives to kill a few Israelis, did you ever stop to think what would happen if several of these people get hold of a real weapon, let's say Ebola virus, or any of a hundred things that are available from rogue states around the world. They won't care if they all die, just so long as they kill you too, this is the nature of the war you are forcing them to adopt. I think that it's time for Israel to wake up. We all know that it can happen, it's just a matter of time.
But what would I know, I am only a stupid burnt out ex Stoker with no knowledge of the way the world and people work.
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