The War of 1812




View Poll Results :Who won?
Great Britain won 6 21.43%
The United States won 9 32.14%
Nobody won 13 46.43%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

 
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September 29th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 

Topic: The War of 1812


Who won the War of 1812? Some say that the United States won. Some say that the British won. Most people call it a draw. But what is the truth?

The United States had its capital burned to the ground ... and yet Washington D.C. in those days was nowhere nearly as important as Richmond, Boston or New York City. Unlike Europe, this was no game of capture the flag. The rule that "if you take my capital, you win" just simply didn't apply. The Americans fought on without any pause without their capital city. It was a new capital, and its hard to say how central D.C. to the United States. It could be argued that its destruction helped solidify its importance, like a slain hero in battle or such.

At the Battle of New Orleans, the Amercians butchered the Britsh. The war was over but neither side at New Orleans was aware of this fact. Despite not having occurred during the war, it added greater strength to the United States position while negotiating the peace.

To my knowledge, the only losses were that England agreed to leave the Ohio River Valley completely. Previously, they had some degree of disputed access. Also, the northern border with Canada was clearly defined and agreed upon ... farther north that the British had previously claimed. There were no territory gains made by the British.
September 29th, 2004  
Duty Honor Country
 
 
I wish I could dive into this topic, but my time is short. I say no one. Here is a post of mine from a different thread that states my view.

The Revolutionary War may have been the war that gave birth to the United States, but the War of 1812 proved we were here to stay. Militarily, the Revolutionary War was horrible. Washington spent most of this time running from the British. His only major victory came at Yorktown with the aid of French fleet and the French Army. After the war ended, the military was reduced to a meager size. The War of 1812 did not start well for the Americans. Although the Americans won a few single ship engagements, the entire east coast was blockaded. The first invasion into Canada failed in 1812. We invaded and burned York, but the British did the same to Washington DC. Captain Perry won a decisive battle on Lake Erie by rowing to another ship in the middle of battle, saving the day. The invasion of Canada in July 1814 proved that American regulars could stand muzzle to muzzle with British regulars. The American Regulars were dressed in cadet uniforms since the US government had no other uniforms available. The British first thought these soldiers were militia. They quickly changed their minds after seeing the soldiers perform under fire. The British were routed at Chippewa, but they were able to hold the Americans at Lundy Lane. The official outcome is a draw. This engagement may seem small, but it proved that Americans could hold their ground on even terms. The American military was here to stay.
September 29th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Right, well I'd like as many viewpoints as possible if you believe one side or the other won. If you believe anybody won this war, why?
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September 29th, 2004  
Chocobo_Blitzer
 
The US declared war to stop the British from screwin' with our merchant ships, right? They agreed to stop after the war? Then mission accomplished USA.

But if you want to talk damage, then the British wins that with the whole DC thing and pillaging all those villages, damn.
September 30th, 2004  
hammerlock
 
 
Even from your first post you don't really understand how this war plays into the creation of Canada. It wasn't just a war fought by Great Britian, in fact most of land battles were fought by Canadian militia and Natives( in 1812 and 1813), who were out numbered by their American foe. This war also plays into nationalism whos view of history you want to believe more. For Americans its that you won or that it was draw. For Canada it was win because a small group of armed colonial troops kept you have invading and taking over the Canadian colonies. many American fail to remember that was part of war, to put of North American under the US flag... the US lost. British never had a goal of expanding Upper and Lower Canada, just keeping what had, and in that they succussful.

As a Canadian National, I know that Canada won this war. Americans just have a hard time at looking at the facts and realizing that yes indeed they lost to a handful British Regulars, Canadian Militia, and Canadian natives. Just by being able to get a treaty signed and the war stopped is a victory, because theUS was over 10 times larger than Canada and was unable to take over. The Battle of New Orleans, doesn't factor in this because it was fought after the peace treaty and its effects therefore didn't play into the treaty, as the war over by 1815.

The war ended in a stalemate with, the Treaty of Ghent, signed in Belgium on December 24, 1814, returned all conquered territory, so that the situation was the same as it had been in 1812. The big difference was that the people in the British colonies, especially Upper and Lower Canada, had gained a sense of nationhood. Together, they had fought to repel an invader, and this gave them a new pride and caused them to think of themselves as Canadians, identifying with the land in which they lived rather than in the countries they had come from. THis why from a Canadian view point the war was won by Canada.

Here is quick list of the battles

1812
JUne 18 US declares war on GB including Upper and Lower Canada.
JUly 12 US forces cross Detroit river
July 17 capture of michilimackinac ( US lose)
Aug 16 Siege of Detroit by 600 Can and Native forces, it surrenders with out a fight.
Oct 13 The British, and Can Militia led by Brock and General Roger Sheaffe, repulse an American invasion at Queenston Heights. Brock is killed

1813
Apr27 American fleet on Lake Ontario captures York [Toronto], burning the Parliament Building

May-DEc Americans take Fort George but are driven back at the battles of Stoney Creek (June 6) and Beaver Dams (June 24)
Sept 10 American navy defeats British at Put-In-Bay on Lake Erie
Oct-NOv American advance on Montreal defeated at Châteauguay (Oct 26) by Colonel Charles de Salaberry, and at Crysler's Farm (Nov 11) by Colonel Joseph Morrison

July US forces again invade Niagara peninsula but defeated at Lundy's Lane (July 25)
Aug British troops land near Washington, D.C., and burn the White House and Capitol building
Sept The British, led by Sir George Prevost, strike south, but are defeated at Plattsburg on Lake Champlain
Dec 24Treaty of Ghent ends the war and restores the boundaries to their positions at the beginning of the war
September 30th, 2004  
Chocobo_Blitzer
 
I didn't know we declared war on Canada, I just thought it was Britian. I thought that by declaring war on Britian, it's an auto-go for the colonies in Canada. I never really thought of it as two allied countries against the US.

Reminds me a bit of the Korean war, and China's claim to victory.
September 30th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Canada was part of the British Empire at the time, so ... no we did not declare war on Canada because Canada wasn't a nation yet.
September 30th, 2004  
hammerlock
 
 
True the US didn't declare war on Canada, but you did invade it..
September 30th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Of course we did. That was British Territory, etc. LOL
September 30th, 2004  
Bellerophon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocobo_Blitzer
The US declared war to stop the British from screwin' with our merchant ships, right? They agreed to stop after the war? Then mission accomplished USA.

But if you want to talk damage, then the British wins that with the whole DC thing and pillaging all those villages, damn.
I think you'll find the real war aim of the USA was to drive the British out of North America.Time was running out,Napoleon was losing in Europe so somthing had to be done.

The merchant ship reason was only part of it,and it was legitimate for the British to blockade Europe.

So I guess the war aims of the USA failed as Britain remained in Canada and the Caribbean,but the British counterattack also failed(despite Washington burning)at the time of New Orleans the war was already over.

So lets call it draw.