The Other Guy
Spam King
So... what did everyone think?
VP Debate
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Well I think that those who said they will vote Democrat/Republican before the debate will be voting Democrat/Republican after the debate.
So really the only question that needs to be answered is who the swinging voter found more credible.
Personally I think they both achieved their goals, many people though Palin was going to win because of "some super Alaskan debating skills" and that didn't happened but at the same time I don't think she came across as the complete plonker that she did in previous interviews.
I will go with a marginal Biden win on this one.
Last edited:
Lunatik
Active member
Me too. Even though, I must admit, Palin performed better than I expected, Biden just yanked it out of her hands with his experience, handling of the time and questions, as well as general tone and stance.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
The results are coming in .....
The answers as to how the debate was viewed by the rest of us are starting to come in.
The perceptions of some people as to whether Palin is qualified to be VEEP was overwhelming. The answer appears to be a resounding NO.
The answers as to how the debate was viewed by the rest of us are starting to come in.
- Palin wandered all over the place when the first Iraq question was asked till Biden pinned her down with the observation that she had NOT addressed the question and had NOT given a straight answer as to what her plan for Iraq was.
- Palin's very first response to a question was an off-road trip. She ignored the issue the first question raised, to ramble on and on about the energy issue ... which she did on a number of other occasions.
- Biden was very very restrained in his responses to Palin's non-responses and usage of data that was inaccurate, exaggerated and used to find fault with Biden and Obama's political history. Based upon his responses, Biden could have handed Palin her head on a platter for using inaccurate data.
- Biden had a better grasp of McCain's record than Palin did ... not a good situation for the person who supports McCain and is his running mate.
- Palin's "5 week" comment really raised the eyebrows on a number of the people that were watching the debate. Palin really brought home the fact that Palin REALLY is NOT qualified to be VEEP.
- Did Palin step into quicksand??? ... that is a different question. While she didn't really make any inroads into undecided voters, consensus is - she also didn't do any real harm.
- Biden kept the focus on Obama's strong points and compared Obama's and McCain's stances on a variety of issues, to the detriment of McCain.
- Palin lost the "I'm an outsider" and you're an "insider" argument. She kept running up against Biden's experience and her "lack" of experience and knowledge made it obvious that she lacks experience to handle the issues.
- Overall, Biden and Palin surpassed expectations of many observers.
- Overall, those who viewed the debate, consider the Obama/Biden ticket offers MORE change than a McCain/Palin ticket. So much for McCain being a candidate of change and a maverick ... viewers of this debate don't buy it..
The perceptions of some people as to whether Palin is qualified to be VEEP was overwhelming. The answer appears to be a resounding NO.
Team Infidel
Forum Spin Doctor
^^ good analysis.
I fell asleep half way through.
I fell asleep half way through.
Chief,
The fact remains she is way more qualified that Oboma, who has never had a real job, owned a business, etc.
Palin did a great job, for the level of experiance she had I agree she did dodge a few questions but, just being able to hang in there with a slick politician who has been in there as long a he as was great.
Speaking for my wife and other women they like here more every time they see her.
Bottom line Palin did the best she could with what she had remember there are 3 Senators in this race and 1 real person.
The fact remains she is way more qualified that Oboma, who has never had a real job, owned a business, etc.
Palin did a great job, for the level of experiance she had I agree she did dodge a few questions but, just being able to hang in there with a slick politician who has been in there as long a he as was great.
Speaking for my wife and other women they like here more every time they see her.
Bottom line Palin did the best she could with what she had remember there are 3 Senators in this race and 1 real person.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I watched this debate with three people (two female) who will be voting in this election two of which are registered Republicans and strong advocates of McCain and not one of them thought she did well, they said the blank stare and Gomer Pyle style of speech were both condescending and annoying.
I am somewhat convinced that people think she did well because she didn't do as badly as they had expected.
I am somewhat convinced that people think she did well because she didn't do as badly as they had expected.
mmarsh
Active member
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Being a State senator for 10 years doesn't qualify as a "Real Job?". Let me tell you: Being a state senator of 18 Million people is worth far more than being mayor of a hamlet of 7000, or the less the 2 years as Governor of a state where the caribou outnumber the people.
As for owning a Business, Bush owned two different oil companies and bankrupted them both. So surely that's not much of a criteria either...
BTW John McCain doesn't qualify in your definition of having a real job either, unless you count being married to a beer magnate heiress woth $100 Million as a type of employment.
Bottom line, being able to cram for a week and only manage a "C" grade isn't going to cut it as Vice-President, when you must know your stuff at all times on the spot. Thats the job, the ignorant or unintelligent have no business at this job. And citing the ability to see Russia from your house as Foreign Polcy experiance is pretty embarrassing. Vladimir Putin isn't known for his sense of humor but he must have found that pretty damn funny.
In typical GOP form, their idea of victory was that she DIDNT come across as totally clueless as she did on Katie Couric. My god, That's setting the bar pretty damn low to call it a victory.
Obama might not have much experiance but at least he knows what hes talking about. Unlike Palin who falls to pieces whenever a non-scripted question is asked. Why do you think the GOP wont let her talk to the press? She's is Dan Quayle with nicer legs.
The Other Guy
Spam King
1-That is a completely rediculous statement. Obama has more experience in Washington than Palin, has more foreign policy expericence, and unlike Palin is actually running for president.
2-She dodged EVERY question. I cannot think of a question she answered straight. If she has that little experience she shouldn't even be running.
3-Speaking for every female I have talked to today (about 75 of them) they like her less and less every time they see her.
4-One real person who doesn't know how to do much of anything, as near as I can tell. I have more knowledge about the world than she does. I wouldn't vote for her to run my PTA.
She didn't do well. However expectations were so low that as long as she didn't drool on the podium people would have said she did well. However she did nothing to boost McCain. The only thing she did was avoid total catastrophe.
***********
Biden won. Palin lost. It wasn't pretty. But can you honestly imagine her in meetings with foreign dignitaries? What's she going to do, wink at Putin?
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Interestingly enough this turned up in the inbox this morning, clearly by someone that was of Democratic leaning but I figured it fits in this thread and should provide good talking points...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear friends,
I realized this morning after the debate why listening to Sarah Palin makes me so uneasy. Put aside, for the moment, her qualifications to be the vice president of the US in a time of grave national crisis. I simply want to focus on her refusal to think and the consequent shallowness that flows from that refusal. We have two maxims to guide us here: STOP and think; THINK before you speak. We stop to take the complexity of reality into account in our effort to understand it. If we don't think before we speak, we are very likely to utter cliches, slogans, quarter truths, evasive responses to questions, an endless repetition of mantras that are oblivious to fact and logic.
From the beginning, Palin's public discourse has exemplified these vices, but last night they were on full display.
1. She almost never answered Gwen Ifill's questions. In fact she said at the outset that she didn't intend to: that was not her purpose. Now all politicians do this to some extent, but Palin's evasiveness crossed over into a different level of contempt for the purpose of intelligent questions: to allow the respondent to articulate her understanding of reality, her judgment of its problems and challenges, and her practical proposals for remedying those problems and rising to those challenges. I defy you to review her answers and find that she met any of these criteria.
2.When a thoughtless person whose answers to questions are superficial, misleading, indicative of ignorance, contemptuous of facts, endlessly based on cliches etc etc is challenged to clarify,justify, or elaborate what she said, what does Palin do? She simply repeats what she said, as though words and things bore no relation to each other, as though discourse and reality had completely parted company. Palin lives in a world of cliches and slogans: greed and corruption; need for reform; get govt out of the way( even as she endorses massive govt intervention in the economy); raise your taxes; votes against funding our troops; victory is near; mavericks and outsiders. She hasn't met a cliche or bromide she doesn't like.
But ask her to go beyond the cliches to any level of depth. What does she do; she simply repeats them and flashes a smile. She has brought the junior high pep squad mentality to the discussion of the economy, energy, national defense, climate change. You name it.
3. The republican operatives are not fools. So what did they do? They tried to intimidate Gwen Ifill so she wouldn't require Palin to answer her questions. Both Gibson and Couric revealed Palin's shallowness with follow up questions, after her initial responses were evasive and empty. For whatever reason, Ifill simply let her use the occasion as a display of her folksy shtick. Biden was restricted by a different script. Since the republican convention the democrats have decided there is no political traction in calling Palin on her repeated distortions of fact. They have relied on the media to challenge the Bridge to Nowhere BS, Palin's knowledge of foreign affairs, the radical inconsistency of railing against govt and calling in a jam for swift oversight, the endless portrayal of Mc Cain as a maverick, when the platform he has chosen to run on is BUSH Warmed OVER etc.
Here the shallowness of the media fortifies the shallowness of Palin. When Palin fell on her face with Gibson and Couric, they highlighted it because it was evident to everyone who can see or hear. But when Palin gives essentially the same answers, equally shallow, equally thoughtless, equally oblivious of reality and history, BUT keeps her composure, flashes her smile, and talks of Joe sixpack, they are charmed like a young boy the prom queen has kissed.
Palin is the representative candidate of a media age where style is all and substance is an afterthought at best.
4. After 66 years of learning and over 40 years of teaching, I have a highly developed BS detector. Palin sets off every alarm bell in my body, mind, heart and soul. She is the most shallow public figure to reach this high threshold that I have ever seen. Her only serious rival is W, whom she resembles uncannily.
5. Our nation is in crisis. Our problems are immense. Public confidence is declining rapidly. There are no easy solutions to any of our difficulties. And Mc Cain has chosen as his running mate the female analogue of the folksy charmer whose shallow confidence and manifest ignorance helped aggravate the mess we are in. Palin is not,of course, the source of this massive debacle, but she is the clearest symbol we will ever had of the intellectual and moral failings that led us to this point.
God help us if our own shallowness keeps us from recognizing this.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear friends,
I realized this morning after the debate why listening to Sarah Palin makes me so uneasy. Put aside, for the moment, her qualifications to be the vice president of the US in a time of grave national crisis. I simply want to focus on her refusal to think and the consequent shallowness that flows from that refusal. We have two maxims to guide us here: STOP and think; THINK before you speak. We stop to take the complexity of reality into account in our effort to understand it. If we don't think before we speak, we are very likely to utter cliches, slogans, quarter truths, evasive responses to questions, an endless repetition of mantras that are oblivious to fact and logic.
From the beginning, Palin's public discourse has exemplified these vices, but last night they were on full display.
1. She almost never answered Gwen Ifill's questions. In fact she said at the outset that she didn't intend to: that was not her purpose. Now all politicians do this to some extent, but Palin's evasiveness crossed over into a different level of contempt for the purpose of intelligent questions: to allow the respondent to articulate her understanding of reality, her judgment of its problems and challenges, and her practical proposals for remedying those problems and rising to those challenges. I defy you to review her answers and find that she met any of these criteria.
2.When a thoughtless person whose answers to questions are superficial, misleading, indicative of ignorance, contemptuous of facts, endlessly based on cliches etc etc is challenged to clarify,justify, or elaborate what she said, what does Palin do? She simply repeats what she said, as though words and things bore no relation to each other, as though discourse and reality had completely parted company. Palin lives in a world of cliches and slogans: greed and corruption; need for reform; get govt out of the way( even as she endorses massive govt intervention in the economy); raise your taxes; votes against funding our troops; victory is near; mavericks and outsiders. She hasn't met a cliche or bromide she doesn't like.
But ask her to go beyond the cliches to any level of depth. What does she do; she simply repeats them and flashes a smile. She has brought the junior high pep squad mentality to the discussion of the economy, energy, national defense, climate change. You name it.
3. The republican operatives are not fools. So what did they do? They tried to intimidate Gwen Ifill so she wouldn't require Palin to answer her questions. Both Gibson and Couric revealed Palin's shallowness with follow up questions, after her initial responses were evasive and empty. For whatever reason, Ifill simply let her use the occasion as a display of her folksy shtick. Biden was restricted by a different script. Since the republican convention the democrats have decided there is no political traction in calling Palin on her repeated distortions of fact. They have relied on the media to challenge the Bridge to Nowhere BS, Palin's knowledge of foreign affairs, the radical inconsistency of railing against govt and calling in a jam for swift oversight, the endless portrayal of Mc Cain as a maverick, when the platform he has chosen to run on is BUSH Warmed OVER etc.
Here the shallowness of the media fortifies the shallowness of Palin. When Palin fell on her face with Gibson and Couric, they highlighted it because it was evident to everyone who can see or hear. But when Palin gives essentially the same answers, equally shallow, equally thoughtless, equally oblivious of reality and history, BUT keeps her composure, flashes her smile, and talks of Joe sixpack, they are charmed like a young boy the prom queen has kissed.
Palin is the representative candidate of a media age where style is all and substance is an afterthought at best.
4. After 66 years of learning and over 40 years of teaching, I have a highly developed BS detector. Palin sets off every alarm bell in my body, mind, heart and soul. She is the most shallow public figure to reach this high threshold that I have ever seen. Her only serious rival is W, whom she resembles uncannily.
5. Our nation is in crisis. Our problems are immense. Public confidence is declining rapidly. There are no easy solutions to any of our difficulties. And Mc Cain has chosen as his running mate the female analogue of the folksy charmer whose shallow confidence and manifest ignorance helped aggravate the mess we are in. Palin is not,of course, the source of this massive debacle, but she is the clearest symbol we will ever had of the intellectual and moral failings that led us to this point.
God help us if our own shallowness keeps us from recognizing this.
Last edited:
Sarah Palin now has the ultimate seal of approval. It is revealed that she is tenth cousin to Princess Diana and ninth cousin to Franklin D. Roosevelt; what more can I say?
On the other hand, Dick Cheney is related to Barack Obama . Ninth cousin - once removed.
Keep it in the family, why don'tcha :smile:
On the other hand, Dick Cheney is related to Barack Obama . Ninth cousin - once removed.
Keep it in the family, why don'tcha :smile:
Last edited:
The Other Guy
Spam King
Oh please. I'm a ninth cousin to Daniel Boone. Does that make me a wild outdoorsman?
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Hey if you believe in the bible and go back far enough we all share a common set of great...... grandparents.
Which is kind of scary in a "Deliverance" sort of way.
I pass. does it?
Now then, Does a Princess, a President and a Vice-President always trump a wild outdoorsman? Answers on a post-card.
Last edited:
senojekips
Active member
So now we know.
Diana wasn't murdered my MI6. She found out about her relationship to a politician and committed suicide.
Diana wasn't murdered my MI6. She found out about her relationship to a politician and committed suicide.
senojekips
Active member
Just FYI.
MI6 is British.
MI6 is British.