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Only thing Bush ever did that I give him credit for is allow the Clinton AWB to expire, and vow to send a manned mission to Mars within 3 decades. Who knows if that'll actually happen though.

PATRIOT Act and Military Commissions Act of '06 which allows American citizens to be declared enemy combatants by the president pretty much ensured I was going to hate this president. That's a great plan for dealing with terrorists. Trample on our own civil rights and give far more power to the executive branch based around fear. Done a great job of discrediting ourselves in the eyes of the world as well. Ultimately I can't help but think that all these things are signs of a great victory for the terrorists; they have successfully used fear to change us for the worse.
 
"...they have successfully used fear to change us for the worse". Major Liabilty

That's got to be the best comment I have seen in quite awhile. I'll go even a step further, while Presidents such as FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Clinton, even Nixon (to a degree), brought out America's strengths, Bush and Co have done exactly the opposite, they have shown our worst qualities to our friends and our weaknesses to our enemies...
 
Bush gave us money, twice a stimulus check :) ( like that helped any )
The patriot act had the good intentions in the beginning, but then so did the internment camps in Cali after Pearl Harbor.
As

mmarsh you said>> That's got to be the best comment I have seen in quite awhile. I'll go even a step further, while Presidents such as FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Clinton, even Nixon (to a degree), brought out America's strengths, Bush and Co have done exactly the opposite, they have shown our worst qualities to our friends and our weaknesses to our enemies...

as much as I hate to say it, I have to agree with that statement. At no other time in my life has the United States been so hated around the world.

Please everybody do NOT think that our current administration reflects the whole United States.
 
What's so bad about the current Administration? What could be different and them still be doing their jobs of trying to keep terrorism/terrorists out of country? If President Bush and his Admin were not doing the things they have done and we were attacked again, folks would belly ache about that, about the Admin not doing their jobs. With the cards he's been dealt, I don't feel their is anything but a damned if you do damned you don't atmosphere for him and his Admin.

The only folks that really hate us in the world are those that want to attack us and not have any consequences to pay for it. Many also never really liked us anyway, only pretend to for personal gain.
 
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It depends on who you ask,
DMV here in VA now requires me to PROVE, that (1) I'm alive, like standing at the counter isn't good enough, (2) I'm a citizen of the United States, well I was yesterday (3) that I'm a citizen of VA, Hello I've been here for 30 years. plus I have to show ID to get in the door, really good when my license is expired and the guard wont let me in cause I have an expired ID. I don't mind the cameras watching me drive around town and walk through the mall, although it does kinda remind me of a high security military scifi movie right before the alien attacks the troops. Some people don't mind that stuff, I think its really stupid, save that crap for somebody who moves here from Iran.

All the hidden taxes don't help, plus most of the rest of the world sees us as a oil hungry war monger country now.
Now I'm not saying the next administration is going to be better, in fact I think it will get way worse.
 
The cameras for everyone, I agree perfect for Iranians and such, however, it's in place for all for the obvious politically correct standard.
 
Aiki, the guys who dislike America aren't the ones who want to attack but countries that are supposed to be friends.
It's a huge mess and if the boss isn't responsible for it, I don't know who is. I guess we all are.
As for the terrorist thing. I think it's being over played. Yeah so they hit us good on 9/11/2001. But with people more vigilant about such possibilities, a MAJOR overhaul in the system like we are seeing now and have been for the past few years is simply unnecessary. The changes that were made should have been very much under the radar and for the average Joe, hard to notice.
But no, they stick it in your face at every possible opportunity.
It's like the difference between how the SAS work and how supposed SF types in Blackwater operate. The SAS travel in low profile cars with their automatic weapons out of sight. Blackwater travel in heavy SUVs with MGs sticking out in all directions. It's what SAS learned operating in Northern Ireland.
Don't piss off the people you're supposed to help.
 
The thing we all have with the middle east we can thank King Arthur and the crusades for, for some reason the Muslims have been trying to kill us all ever since somebody tried to ram Catholic religion down their throat, I think really got worse when we started staying there and never leaving, they want to be left alone, I say after its all one, leave those people alone.
All we need is a president that will say, were gonna leave you alone if you leave us alone, and actually do it if you notice they have no respect for anybody who leaves before job is finished, and liars Govt's lie ( show me one that doesn't I'll retire tto that place :) ) As long as govts lie to them they will be killing us
 
The reason it's broadcasted is as an attempt to use it as a deterrent as well, not just to shove it in folks faces. If it doesn't look aggressive than the terrorists will assume it's not and give them better opportunities of succeeding.

Wolfen:

Just like when certain folks claim how terrible white folks were to black folks with slavery and all of that stuff and how we owe them an apology, I always think to myself, show me one person alive today that was a slave owner or a slave. I didn't have a single thing to do with slavery. just as not a single soul alive today had a thing to do with the Crusades. I owe no apologies for either.
 
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(Don't piss off the people you're supposed to help.)

now THAT is signature material right there, also the best idea I've heard since 1985
 
No matter whats done, folks will belly ache.
Like they said in the Corps, when they stop complaining, that's when you need to worry.
 
The thing we all have with the middle east we can thank King Arthur and the crusades for, for some reason the Muslims have been trying to kill us all ever since somebody tried to ram Catholic religion down their throat,

Umm, King Arthur actually lived (if he ever lived at all) long before any of Crusades and the Crusades actually have very little to do with the modern issues between Muslims (or Arabs anyway) and the rest of the world. What drives the Muslims/Arabs crazy is that the nations that make up the First World are non-Muslim and successful while theirs are obviously not. Without the revenue from oil and natural gas, most Arab states would be miserable backwaters - and some of them are even with the money!

If, as they believe and insist, that they are the Chosen People of God and Mohammed was the Final Prophet, then THEY should be running the world and be far more successful than any infidels or combination thereof. But they are obviously not and have not been successful for several centuries. Don't believe me, try reading What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East by Bernard Lewis (or almost anything else he has written, the man is a really tremendous Middle East Scholar)

I think really got worse when we started staying there and never leaving, they want to be left alone, I say after its all one, leave those people alone.

Umm, the last I looked the British left their Middle East colonies, protectorates etc. in 50 to 40 years ago. The US never had any and while we supported the Shah (which the Iranians are apparently still mad about) we had no forces in the region until we were invited into Saudi Arabia by that government (we also helped liberated Kuwait from a fellow Muslim (and total creep) named Sadam Hussein, which apparently is a crime as well :???:). That's a large part of what drove Osama bin Ladin to found Al Qaeda if I recall correctly - the presence of non-Muslim troops (US and others) in Saudi Arabia. Their crime was to be there and help defend that country, even though most of them were far away from any holy sites and they took (sometimes ridiculous) pains to not offend their hosts.

The other thing that drives some of them crazy is the US (and sometimes, Europe’s) support for Israel - another non-Muslim, and successful, state and the only fully functional democracy in the region, besides Turkey (which is a secular Muslim state).


All we need is a president that will say, were gonna leave you alone if you leave us alone, and actually do it if you notice they have no respect for anybody who leaves before job is finished

If only it were that simple. Remember the radical elements attacked us (the West). You are totally correct about your last point however, strength is respected, which is something prospective US Presidential candidates should think hard about before they decide to cut and run
:(
 
That's good info. Not a lot of the stuff to we get to hear often enough.
What I always had the impression of was that there are groups out there who's sole claim to power is the hatred of the West. It's their source of legitimacy. A pullout won't make that go away.
 
Umm, King Arthur actually lived (if he ever lived at all) long before any of Crusades and the Crusades actually have very little to do with the modern issues between Muslims (or Arabs anyway) and the rest of the world. What drives the Muslims/Arabs crazy is that the nations that make up the First World are non-Muslim and successful while theirs are obviously not. Without the revenue from oil and natural gas, most Arab states would be miserable backwaters - and some of them are even with the money!

If, as they believe and insist, that they are the Chosen People of God and Mohammed was the Final Prophet, then THEY should be running the world and be far more successful than any infidels or combination thereof. But they are obviously not and have not been successful for several centuries. Don't believe me, try reading What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East by Bernard Lewis (or almost anything else he has written, the man is a really tremendous Middle East Scholar)



Umm, the last I looked the British left their Middle East colonies, protectorates etc. in 50 to 40 years ago. The US never had any and while we supported the Shah (which the Iranians are apparently still mad about) we had no forces in the region until we were invited into Saudi Arabia by that government (we also helped liberated Kuwait from a fellow Muslim (and total creep) named Sadam Hussein, which apparently is a crime as well :???:). That's a large part of what drove Osama bin Ladin to found Al Qaeda if I recall correctly - the presence of non-Muslim troops (US and others) in Saudi Arabia. Their crime was to be there and help defend that country, even though most of them were far away from any holy sites and they took (sometimes ridiculous) pains to not offend their hosts.

The other thing that drives some of them crazy is the US (and sometimes, Europe’s) support for Israel - another non-Muslim, and successful, state and the only fully functional democracy in the region, besides Turkey (which is a secular Muslim state).




If only it were that simple. Remember the radical elements attacked us (the West). You are totally correct about your last point however, strength is respected, which is something prospective US Presidential candidates should think hard about before they decide to cut and run
:(

The only thing I can legitimately argue with you on is the fact that the US was in the Arab country's way before the Kuwait invasion, what the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan the CIA armed Osama Bin Laden so he could fight the Soviets, we were there before that too drilling for oil. We've been there longer that most people think, I have no idea about what England does, I don't even try keeping up with the English, my kids are enough.
 
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