Vladimir Putin checkmates the West

senojekips said:
Please do not trivialise this subject. Try telling that to an innocent (by US judgement) taxi driver who had his legs "pulpified" by US troops. The doctors post mortem report stated that had he lived through the beating, he would have needed both legs amputated at the hips.

It is not merely the "Bad guys" who do this type of thing, and making excuses only makes it worse.
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Those things happen in war. But overall if you look at how the US has conducted it, it's a heck of a lot more humane than wars that have come before this.
You have a war going on for seven years... bad things are going to happen.
If we go into details like this, any party involved in war lately, be it America, Korea, Australia, India, Belgium etc., are all just as bad as the Russians or the Chinese.
 
AikiRooster said:
Again, I thought country bashing was illegal here?
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It is, but telling the truth is not. It's time we all grew up a little and started to accept the truth even when it is not nice.

This is not country bashing. I have great admiration for the USA and it's people, but I can still see the truth of the matter.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Those things happen in war. But overall if you look at how the US has conducted it, it's a heck of a lot more humane than wars that have come before this.
You have a war going on for seven years... bad things are going to happen.
If we go into details like this, any party involved in war lately, be it America, Korea, Australia, India, Belgium etc., are all just as bad as the Russians or the Chinese.
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The Americans are losing wars because we can't harm the civillians secretly plotting our demise.

So is the "good guy" badge even something we want? It doesn't do us any good, but it would get us to win.
 
There is an element of truth but USA = Russia = China is really stretching it.

The Other Guy said:
The Americans are losing wars because we can't harm the civillians secretly plotting our demise.

So is the "good guy" badge even something we want? It doesn't do us any good, but it would get us to win.
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I think America can use a few years of pulling out of places. After a few years people will miss American presence that many of us take for granted.
The Good Guy badge is the reason why I'm saying the US is NOT at the same level as Russia or China. These guys will spray a crowd of civilians with bullets without batting an eyelid.
 
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The truth as I see it is not authorized for sharing here. Just because you or me say it's truth, doesn't make it so, it is a perception is it not? My perception, without a doubt, is much different than yours and about 5 others here.

Some of these youngans that have the opinions they have really ought to serve some time in boots and than they will see for themselves what the real truth is.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Those things happen in war.
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The man was a civilian who had not committed any crime other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The crime was not committed in the heat of battle, but in a temporary detention facility while the man awaited interrogation.

Now, I'm only stating this to bring it home to some of our members who seem to believe that we (yes Australians also) ARE capable of committing crimes against humanity. This crap that we are incapable of being the bad guys is insane. We are capable and when no one keeps reminding us, we get things like I mentioned above. I could name a lot more but the point has been made and there is no need to rub our own faces in it.
 
It's calmed down a lot more in this discussion now... i might actually join in on a more spectator level. The level of hostility earlier really upset me, considering how we're all supposed to be adults. Come on guys, keep it cool and level headed, don't split up over such a matter.


My own honest view, however, is that Georgia should not have invaded. They invaded, and are now suffering the consequences. Victims of their own devices.
 
Insomniac said:
It's calmed down a lot more in this discussion now... i might actually join in on a more spectator level. The level of hostility earlier really upset me, considering how we're all supposed to be adults. Come on guys, keep it cool and level headed, don't split up over such a matter.


My own honest view, however, is that Georgia should not have invaded. They invaded, and are now suffering the consequences. Victims of their own devices.
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Honestly, the tension like that was a dose I kind of needed... it was getting too boring here. :)

My own honest opinion is that Russia has no buisness as to what goes on in Georgia. If there are a lot of Russians there, then get them out if you're afraid for them. If 20,000 Americans were to suddenly move to a town in Canada, and started a riot, the US has no right to invade Canada if the army is dispatched.
 
If someone attacks my country, I'm not going to take it lightly. Forgive me for being proud of what my nation has done for the world. If isolationism wasn't suicide, I'd say we pull out of EVERY country, and watch the rest of the world squirm. Then laugh when they cry for the United States' help.

Insomniac, you asked who gave the United States the right to police the world. I'll tell you who. It was those "Allies" who, when it got to brass tacks, did nothing to help a country living in the 10th century as far as a standard of living. The REST OF THE FREE WORLD gave us the right to police it when they did nothing to police it themselves. That's who.


And don't tell me to calm down when it's not your country being attacked. For some reason, people don't seem to realize it's not JUST the United States in Iraq. But only the United States is hated for it... I find that a bit coincidental.
 
I heard on another forum that the US is implementing a "missile shield" around the Russians... so that missiles can go in but can't get out. The Russian invasion may be part of saying "HAHAHA fcuk off mate, you ain't locking us inside"


C/1Lt Henderson said:
If someone attacks my country, I'm not going to take it lightly. Forgive me for being proud of what my nation has done for the world. If isolationism wasn't suicide, I'd say we pull out of EVERY country, and watch the rest of the world squirm. Then laugh when they cry for the United States' help.

Insomniac, you asked who gave the United States the right to police the world. I'll tell you who. It was those "Allies" who, when it got to brass tacks, did nothing to help a country living in the 10th century as far as a standard of living. The REST OF THE FREE WORLD gave us the right to police it when they did nothing to police it themselves. That's who.


And don't tell me to calm down when it's not your country being attacked. For some reason, people don't seem to realize it's not JUST the United States in Iraq. But only the United States is hated for it... I find that a bit coincidental.
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The English are hated for it as well mate. And i will tell you to calm down, this is a DEBATING forum, not an all-out arguing forum. No need to get all angry.


Also, we seem to do a damn good job policing the world. Let each country sort it's own problems out, i say. Never did us no harm in the past. Why do america seem to feel the need to get involved in Iraq and Afghanistan and not Zimbabwe and the african continent in general? There are plenty of dictators in there who mistreat their people, but the americans seem content to sit and be happy in their nice country, only invading (yes, INVADING) countries where, coincidentally, there is a lot of oil. I say Invade, because i'm damn sure Saddam didn't want Americans and English in his country. We destroyed a country and made a lot of upset by invading Iraq. We destabilized the middle east for God's sake.
 
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That sounds way too much like the European invasions of Africa which led to the slave trade. That was for their own good too.

Who gave the US the right to invade Iraq? No one. Not even the citizens of Iraq. Mind you, if there was a big resistance movement in Iraq, I'd say jump in. But there was NONE. The Iraqis seemed perfectly happy with the government they had. It may have been crummy, but they had never known anything difference.

And after what we've shown them of democracy, I think many of them would like to go back.

Oh, and by the way, I'd feel differently had Iraq actually attacked us. But they didn't.
 
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i'd rather be thick and happy than educated and unhappy.

You cannot defend the US's actions in Iraq; they were completely unjustified. They [the US] didn't believe the NATO guys sent to check for WMD and went in anyway... leading me to believe it was merely a ploy.
 
We ignored the UN by invading Iraq for ignoring the UN.

That'll win you a lot of allies, as shown by the pathetic "Coalition of the Willing."
 
My argument remains however:

Who actually gave America the right to police the world? last time i checked that was the UN.

(in my post above TOG, i misinformedly said "NATO" instead of "UN". sorry guys, my bad)
 
Insomniac said:
i'd rather be thick and happy than educated and unhappy.

You cannot defend the US's actions in Iraq; they were completely unjustified. They [the US] didn't believe the NATO guys sent to check for WMD and went in anyway... leading me to believe it was merely a ploy.
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Have you ever lived in Iraq? Day to day? Because the general feeling over there SUCKS (dad, uncle, cousin, friend's brother have been). They said they never had one negative thing said to them, only thanks. Little girls running up and hugging their legs, boys kicking soccer balls to them, Mother's crying and thanking the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for saving her baby. Sure, we went in for the wrong reason, but we also needed to go in anyway. I agree 100% that we shouldn't have gone in for the WMDs, but we should have gone in for the people. You cannot tell me that they will be, in the end, better off.
 
So? There are countries all over the world that have oppressed people. China and Saudi Arabia come to mind, but we do business with them so we're willing to look the other way.

The hypocrisy ruins any moral high ground.
 
i can actually tell you that Iraq would have been better off without the American and English forces.

they wouldn't have to face an un-regulated world. What can you do about a terro who goes up on your roof to take potshots at the americans, then gets a load of fire through your house which effectively renders it un-livable? atleast under Saddam the water ran, there was electricity and they were making advances. now they make none.
 
Saudi Arabia's standard of living is 10 times that of Iraq. And China's is off the charts comparatively. You can't compare the three.



They WEREN'T making advances... Life SUCKED! You've never been there, so you can't truthfully tell me otherwise.
 
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