Vladimir Putin checkmates the West

MontyB said:
As I recall in Barcelona 1992 an archer faked lighting the Olympic torch with a flaming arrow did you lodge a complaint, Ashlee Simpson lip synced her way through how many concerts, did her morals extend to returning the ticket money?

I can understand an attempt to grab the moral high ground when you are standing in quicksand, the simple reality is that you are no different to anyone else.
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Well, considering I didn't get to see those Olympics because I was TWO, no. I didn't. Secondly, if you judge the United States military on Ashlee Simpson, you have a REALLY effed up view on us. How do you compare a damned plastic celebrity concert to military action?!


We ARE different than everyone else because we DARE to stand up for what's right. I'm not in quick sand. :cen: I can't even type right now... You honest to God think that the United States is no different than Russia or China?! That's like saying Britian is akin to North Korea... You say I have no idea what I'm talking about... Well my friend, YOU are the one with such misconstrued views about the United States it's not even funny... I PITY your ignorance.
 
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the_13th_redneck said:
I'm sure America backed some pretty shady characters with no apparent justification at some points but no country involved with the world is ever mistake free. What gives me some faith in America is that when someone has actually done the RIGHT thing, it was usually America. If you say America did wrong here and there, you'd be right, but just how many times have the Russians and the Chinese ever done any good?
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But this is all a matter of perspective, I am sure there are Russians and Chinese wondering what America has done that is any good.
I have no doubt that the Russians and Chinese genuinely think their actions are justified just as the US does in its actions.
 
It's alright. When was the last time some truly bad people showed up in New Zealand? Me, all I have to do is listen to my grandmother. Taxi drivers too. I knew one who was in fact Muslim but he was talking about how during the Korean War how there was no food and they basically lived on the wheat that the Americans sent. All they had was wheat in boiled water (I know the type of cooking but it's a bit hard to explain) to sustain them but there was no mistaking where it was from. You'd expect the guy to dislike America because of what they're doing with several Muslim countries and groups but this guy remembers what kept him alive for the months where there was nothing else to eat.
And then listen to some things my old "friends" are saying. The guys who are Southeast Asian Chinese. They don't treat local people as people. It's incredible. And that's a dangerous line of thought for people who own 90% of the stuff down there.
 
C/1Lt Henderson said:
Well, considering I didn't get to see those Olympics because I was TWO, no. I didn't. Secondly, if you judge the United States military on Ashlee Simpson, you have a REALLY effed up view on us. How do you compare a damned plastic celebrity concert to military action?!


We ARE different than everyone else because we DARE to stand up for what's right. I'm not in quick sand. :cen: I can't even type right now... You honest to God think that the United States is no different than Russia or China?! That's like saying Britian is akin to North Korea... You say I have no idea what I'm talking about... Well my friend, YOU are the one with such misconstrued views about the United States it's not even funny... I PITY your ignorance.
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In terms of foreign policy all nations are only looking out for there own interests so yes we are all the same in that sense the difference is that most nations don't have the ability to enforce their foreign policy Russia, China and the USA do.

In terms of my "Ignorance" I would respond to that with a quote "there are none so blind as those who choose not to see"

the_13th_redneck said:
It's alright. When was the last time some truly bad people showed up in New Zealand?
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About 2 months ago, the English rugby team showed up and they were really bad.
:)

You guys seem to be confusing the issue, there seems to be a misconception that I believe the USA is all bad which is not the case I do not believe the USA is all bad nor do I believe that Russia or China are all bad but I do believe that in the end all three of them will achieve their goals by whatever means necessary.
 
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So you're saying you don't see the general improvement from the COUNTLESS situations that Redneck just provided for you? Stop playing Devil's Advocate for two seconds, if possible, and give me YOUR views. I don't care what you THINK the Russians think about us, or what China MIGHT think about us. I want YOUR opinion. Let Boris give me the Russian side of things. Do you honestly not see that the United States has helped the world numerous times? You think the Iraqis would have been better of with Sadaam still in power? And I'm not talking about Sunni Shiites, I'm talking about the nation of Iraq as a whole. And not just Iraq, all the other scenarios Redneck mentioned. You really think minding our own business would have been the MORAL thing to do?


HAHAHA! Vietnam was in our best interests... For what? PLEASE explain to me what monetary gain we had from that!

Do you hate the West MontyB? Do you envy the West? There is more than one type of blind... Those who won't see and those who CANNOT see. Try to guess which one you're views are expressing to me.
 
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For America's best interests? Yes. But it's not just about that, it's also about how you go about doing it.
But that's alright, I don't want to press this one further. I feel like I'm trying to explain why it's good to have a tree in your back yard to someone who's not seen either.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
For America's best interests? Yes. But it's not just about that, it's also about how you go about doing it.
But that's alright, I don't want to press this one further. I feel like I'm trying to explain why it's good to have a tree in your back yard to someone who's not seen either.
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I do believe my blood pressure has gone up enough for tonight... It just irks me to see that there are people who truly believe that the United States hasn't done any good... One question though, what are your (MontyB) views on New Zealand's moral stance?


You are undermining the United State's actions against the evil of the world... Denouncing our good leaves only our evil...


Hell, if we wanted to achieve our goals by any means necessary, we'd simply reduce the entire Middle East to rubble and take the oil ourselves... We exercise extreme restraint... And don't forget that we NEVER target civilians. But the Big Bear sure did. And I'm sure China wouldn't care either.
 
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C/1Lt Henderson said:
I do believe my blood pressure has gone up enough for tonight... It just irks me to see that there are people who truly believe that the United States hasn't done any good... One question though, what are your (MontyB) views on New Zealand's moral stance? I'm sure you think they must be political gods...
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If New Zealand had the capacity to get away with things we would, we are no different to anyone else in that we do what we can get away with.

You are undermining the United State's actions against the evil of the world... Denouncing our good leaves only our evil...
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HAHA what a crock.
 
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So you believe your own country justified in doing whatever it pleases so long as it gets away with it? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? I'M SIMPLY CONFIRMING IT. I WANT YOUR VIEW ON THE MORALITY OF IT. SO I'M TRYING TO GET AN IDEA OF WHAT YOU ACTUALLY MEAN. But you berate and lower the United States to the level of Russia and China because it does that same thing? (Though the United States takes no action without believing it to be in the best intentions of those the action would affect.)


EDIT: Excellent rebuttal from the representative from New Zealand.
 
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C/1Lt Henderson said:
So you believe your own country justified in doing whatever it pleases so long as it gets away with it, but you berate and lower the United States to the level of Russia and China because it does that same thing? (Though the United States takes no action without believing it to be in the best intentions of those the action would affect.)
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Are you in school at all because you are either deliberately misquoting me or lack comprehension skill, at no point have I ever said it was justified.

I have no doubt that we would attempt to justify it but that does not necessarily make it right.
 
Well, I did ask for your views on your countries action as far as morality went, but you chose not to answer me that. I go with what you give me. I can only do so much with so little.


By the way, it couldn't have been a misquotation because I did not re-state your claim, I simply asked another question. And it wasn't a lack of comprehension because, well, do I really seem like a kid who hasn't been in school at all? (I know you're just trying to take another jab at me, so I'll ask for an honest answer there.)


EDIT: Let's see if you can understand the question now. See above.
 
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C/1Lt Henderson said:
Well, I did ask for your views on your countries action as far as morality went, but you chose not to answer me that. I go with what you give me. I can only do so much with so little.
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That is true however I am certain you could see a lot more if you opened both eyes.

But before this reaches moderator level how about we agree to disagree and leave it at that.
 
Ohhh Hendo,... boy oh boy, do you need a "real life" wakeup call I fear you read too many comic books. You fall for all of your own propaganda and never bother to look any deeper than the surface. Before singing your own praises, you need to get off your duff and get around the world a little, I find that your views are exactly those that cause the USA to be detested in so many countries.

You can't see the forest for the trees.

America is a great country, but every bit as devious and dangerous as any of those you so willingly decry, when something or someone gets between the US and it's own interests. I suggest that you read something like the US/ Australian trade agreement for starters,... and we are your Allies.
 
senojekips said:
America is a great country, but every bit as devious and dangerous as any of those you so willingly decry, when something or someone gets between the US and it's own interests. I suggest that you read something like the US/ Australian trade agreement for starters,... and we are your Allies.
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Hehe yeah we lucked out and missed out on the free trade agreement because we are still being punished for our nuclear free policies however we did end up with some really strange agreement with the Chinese that I suspect will come back to bite us on the arse.
 
I look towards the BBC for most of my news gathering, since I know (well, hope) it can be semi-non-biased towards reporting United States news. Not really my own propaganda. I'd love to get around the world a little, but seeing as I'm a starving college student, it's a little hard to do that... And I can't read every language. Hell, some English is hard on the head. If the United States was to truly do something EVIL, we can change the President. That's the beauty of democracy... ( You know, that thing we try to promote and then get sneered at for) Shoot, I'd rather be trying to do the right thing than do nothing at all because "its not my problem." My faith in humanity is again 0...


But anyway... I'm done... There's obviously no convincing you of our good, and there's no way you can convince me we'd be better off alone, so I bid you all adieu and good night.
 
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