Vigilantism & Justice

5.56X45mm

5.56X45mm

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What are your opinions on vigilantism. Do you think that it has a place in modern western society or is it a barbaric act of our past?

I for one think that vigilantism still has a place in today's world. There are those that are above the law, they are either there because the law is corrupt or because they simply are viewed as to important in society to be touched by the law.

The Drug Lords of South America and the Gang Leaders of New York City and Los Angeles are prime examples of those that aren't touched by the law. I think that people should have the legal right to take action to defend themselves and their loved one if their local, state, or federal government will take no action. Action can be something as simple as the "American Minutemen" on the Southern Border of the USA who catch illegal immigrants and then hand them over to Customs & Border Protection. To those of the fictitious character "The Punisher" from Marvel Comics.

Society in my opinion is just going down a worse path everyday. Criminals are being set free and victims are being punished by our legal court systems. Sometimes a little force from the public is needed. And sometimes that force is Vigilantism.

Protect the Innocent and Punish the Wicked.:firedevi:
 
Although the whole vigilante-thing has somethind seducing, I am opposed to it. It is too much a sliding scale and too much power given to just one person or group. You go into a grey zone when you hand full power to a group to do what they deem necessary.
What happened to the constitutional right on a trial. I states that everybody has the right for this, you can't recall this. If you do you make the constitution obsolete instead of safe guarding it.

That example of the minute-man is something else to me. They surveil an area and use the proper channels to take care of the problem. They are within the law and not above.
 
It's well and good to have fantasies about such things (see the movie Boondock Saints), but I think we've advanced to a point where we recognize that everyone has the right to a trial by peers.
 
well. i think it has a place in todays society. Im not saying that every city should have its hero wearing a cape, but sometimes you need to do, what you know is right.
 
I disagree. Being a vigilante is in itself a pretty nifty idea. But I think we as a society are above that. No man should be above the law but of course there are those that seem to be. I am a firm beliver in giving someone enough rope to hang themselves. Laws are there for a purpose. We just need to find all the loopholes and sew them shut.
 
the fact is you will never sew all the loop holes shut. thats a pretty far out there idea, no man should be above the law but someone should know how to uphold it...:thumb:
 
I don't think the idea of vigilantes is too bad. As long as most people in a community agree on it and vigilantes are voted every few months or so, it's cool. But there should be some agency monitoring their actions. If they use their powers for "evil", they should be removed from their position.

FULLMETALJACKET said:
the fact is you will never sew all the loop holes shut. thats a pretty far out there idea, no man should be above the law but someone should know how to uphold it...:thumb:
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Or rather, every time you sew a loop hole shut, a new one opens.
 
So you talk about chosen representatives who are institutionalised in an organisation, so to pay retribution to wrong-do"ers? Where can I apply?

Trouble is how and who makes the list of punishable crimes? I reckon that 5.56 has a different set of ideas on this than I do. And by a majority... so what I choose to live a different life style. Is that punishable, even when to law can't touch me?

In short: very entertaining thought but not feaseable in a democracy, because it opens up the road to repressing the minority and ending the constitution as a tool for law making.
 
I believe in both the Rule fo Law and the Rule of God.

"An Eye for an Eye, a Totth for a Tooth."

Nobody is above justice and even if it is not delivered on this world. It will be delivered in the after life.
 
No reasonable person should support the CONCEPT of vigilantism.

Nevertheless, history clearly teaches us that from time to time there are situations so outrageous that no reasonable alternative exists.
 
5.56

I like the PUNISHER character as well, but hes a fictional character thats all. The history of vigilantism in America is pretty lousy, the Klu Klux Klan for example thought they merely upholding the law. Same can be said of the lynch mobs of the old west. The problem with vigilantes is they interpret the law by for themselves. That means every vigilantes view of the law would be different. You could be gunned down for jay-walking. And what happens if the vigilante make a mistake? Something tells me 'oops, my fault' wouldnt satisfy the victim.

You simply cannot have people exacting 'their' kind of justice. This is a civilized country not the wild west (incidently vigilantes in the old west who were caught were hung). Thats what the law is for. I support only 1 type of law and that US law. That trumps all other law INCLUDING God's law. Incidently, your're quoting the old testement, thats Jewish law, I'm a Christian. We believe in turning the other cheek...:love:

Your info on NYC gangs is also out of date. About 15 years ago, the gangs you refer to (which I knew well) had a unfortunate encounter with a guy named Guiliani and as a result crime has been in steady decline ever since. The mafia also had a similar encounter, they too never recovered. NYC is the safest of the largest cities. Gary Indiana, Nashville Tenn, even Ann Arbor Mich have higher crime rates.
 
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As modern society I really believe we are above vigilanteism. I don't like the idea of people taking the law into their own hands.

However, the goverment needs to do its part to enforce the law and be tough on crime also. If they are not, I can see how this can give rise to the idea of vigilanteism. People will get frustrated and some of them may get pushed to far and go pursue that. But right now the govt seems to be doing an adequate job of handling everything, although sometimes they do seem lacking. But certainly not enough to justify it.

I do believe in Justice as a way of making things right, not neceseraly a means for revenge.

Although I also believe as 5.56X45mm does, that nobody is above justice and even if it is not delivered on this world. It will be delivered in the after life.


​
"My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next."​



Lol, just thought i'd add that last part, just for dramatic flair. You all know where its from right?
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I beleive that if the Police or Judges cannot up hold the law, the people have too. But not reating their own laws. They bring back justice. Why do I support this because the morons who sit on the bench in the once proud state of New South Wales, are so far left wing, they make Marx and Lenin look conservative, and nobody goes to Gaol (Jail).
Sorry, I stand corrected, we had a gang rapist get a 45 year sentence. Hardest Gaol term given out this century. Did you know in NSW, in fact all states in Australia, a LIFE sentence, makes you ELIGABLE FOR PAROLE in 25 YEARS.

My personal opinion is if a judge does not up hold the law, impeach them, blacklist them making all their law qualifications invalid in the Commonwealth, Fine them some herendously large sum of money, and cancell their pensions and superanuation.
That way judges will have a huge incentive to hand out tough sentences. But until somebody who shares my views controls Parliment, the judges will continue to live in their own little socialist paradise, away from all the problems of the world, thinking they are making a difference.

When the Judges cannot uphold the law of my homeland, let the people the laws are esigned to protect do it.
 
good question and responses....

The one of many foundations of the Constitution was the works of William Blackstone ("Free men have arms, slaves do not") and Tecumseh (some of his laws were incorporated into the Constitution)....both of these men centuries apart were trying to unite their countries from men, both inside and outside, for and to taking the 'law' into their own hands....

Historically, there was the "code" used in place of the modern concept of law...this code was handed down mother to daughter, father to son from the Welsh, Irish and Scots immigrents coming to the US....

The Code: Don't manhandle me and mine.
Don't bad mouth me and mine.
Don't lie and cheat me and mine.
If you need help I will help you,
if I need help you'd damn well better help me.

Failure to abide by this meant war.....
no govenment could make things right, nor take back the harm done....

An example of this was the Kansas/Missori Border war before the start of the American Civil war....those that violated the code turned shy farm boys into warriors almost overnight, especially this families harmed by Union 'Redlegs' raids....

Vigilantism happens when a government fails to uphold it's own laws and ethics or when the local, state or federal government break down and is incapable of acting....there are many instances in US history when this happens....
 
The law and justice are not always compatible. The Romans already said:

DURA LEX, SED LEX (it may be a harsh law, but it is the law)

Vigilantism happens when a government fails to uphold it's own laws and ethics or when the local, state or federal government break down and is incapable of acting....there are many instances in US history when this happens....
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Very true Blackwatch; but you do reckon that with a well functioning government, there is no place for vigilantism?
 
Ted,

If you had added the word "just" to your comment about "well functioning government," I would say that there is, indeed, no place for vigilantism.

Unfortunately, there are many "well functioning" governments in today's world that are the polar opposite of just. North Korea, China, Cuba, most of the Muslim countires, etc.

In countries such as these, vigilante action, especially against government and religious officials, is indeed justified.
 
I believe in the rule of me.
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:spam: :spam: :spam: :spam:

The KKK is kind of a bad way of thinking of it. But i think everyone would kinda like a batman figure or superman figure in their city.
 
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