Vietnam War: Winners, losers, and consequence.

Chocobo_Blitzer

Active member
It has always bugged me that, by and large, that most people misunderstand the Vietnam war. Both in it's purpose and execution. The victories and the defeats. And the consequences, the shift in political thinking, not only in Asia, but around the world too. So I would like for you all to shed some light on this dark era in American/Vietnamese history.

People often put much emphasis on the fact that the US, the great super power, lost to a poor country, sparing much life and suffering in the proccess, for absolutely nothing. While I'm hard pressed to challenge the latter with a hard arguement, I have some serious issues with the first.

What defines a lose? When the faction's goals are not met? A free south Vietnam was the goal of the US. This goal did not hold indefinately. Quite simply because of one undeniable reason: The south Vietnamese would not fight for themselves, they would not challenge the great red threat that was consumeing them. It's true some south vietnamese wanted to stay democratic, but the majority would just as easily bend, or even convert.

The US military did it's job in Vietnam, it kept the country from turning communist by military force the entire span of their occupation. But as the war dragged on, and the guerilla war strategy of Mao Zedong of China was takeing it's toll on the US military. Thus, we quickly turned to another strategy: Vietnamization. This strategy was working well, and more and more US troops began comeing home, without major communsit takeover. And finally, in March 1973, the US withdrawls the last of her troops from Vietnam. The North signed a agreement with the US and the South, ending the war.

However, the communist violated this treaty in January 6th, 1975, and ignited the war once again. The US, while Nixon gave his word the US would come back if the North invaded again, Nixon had resigned by then, and obviously the US had confidence the South would win. We were wrong, as history plainly accounts, the south gave a weak hearted resistence. They nearly gave themselves up.

So did the US win the war? No, the South Vietnamese lost it.

The question now remains of the fruition of both sides:

Vietnam was taken by communism, and enjoyed it's true brutality for a good decade or so. It still does, just not as harsh.

The US haulted communist advancement for a mild amount of time. However, I would appreciate it if someone could perhaps explain to me the longstanding effects on the regions acceptence of communism. Was the domino theory false? Was it correct, and the Vietnam conflict was the model of which communism was thereafter percieved?

Thank ya'll for reading!
 
My dad was born in South Vietnam and him and my grandpa fought side by side with America :lol: .... In their opinions they lost the war because the #1 reason for the war is to have freedom. They say America tried their best but their were many things happening in America like protest and a lot of governmental things that made America leave the country. So the fact is we lost!
 
It's true protest and such did factor into the change of strategy. But I'm very sorry if I offended you by my statement. I'm sure, no, I KNOW there were those that wanted freedom and fought with honor such as your father and grandfather.
 
hahah no u didn't offend me, i dont see anything that you wrote that was offensive :p .... An American Soldier during Vietnam once said, and i quote "We lost to a bunch of peasants" :p
 
To history the Vietnam war was lost because we failed in our stated mission. To keep South Vietnam noncommunist.

Did the military lose it? No it was lost by politicians.
 
Chocobo_Blitzer said:
Hundreds of thousands of peasents armed to the teeth with modern soviet weaponry and a hardcore guerilla warfare strategy.

and bamboo sticks, booby traps made of coca cola cans, and old russian rifles. they did not have hi tech gear, air force bla bla bla just will to fight and die for things they believed.
 
I'm well aware of the booby traps and mosin nagnant rifles they used. But a lot of their weaponry was modern soviet small arms. And while I know their airforce couldn't help their ground troops, they tecnnically had one. I also should have mentioned they were blessed with probably the #1 terrian for guerilla warfare.

But I should also point out your description fits the Viet Cong more than NVA. Let's define here.
 
One interesting statistic is this: At the point of US withdrawal, 70% of the guerilla forces fighting in South Vietnam were members of the NVA and not Vietcong. The Vietcong had been so thoroughly decimated by then that they had come to rely on the North reinforcing them in order to continue. The North didn't exactly play the game by the rules.

The Cold War and the business of dividing nations into Communist and non-Communist halves was messy. Many Vietnamese saw Ho Chi Min as their own George Washington, having lead the Vietnamese in their successful overthrow of French control.

There is a topic on this already by the way.
 
The NVA did have modern Soviet equipment. What the hell was shooting down our Air Force? It sure as hell wasn't old Russian rifles or bamboo sticks! (Sam Missiles.) Best at the time in the World. The NVA was also equipped with T-54 and some T-62 or 64 tanks. They were pretty modern too.
 
But back to the original thread. The US by definition did lose Vietnam. But for 10 years it did stop Communism's spread. But as far as the Domino Theory goes, I think the willing show of force in Vietnam definately slowed the expansion of communism. It also pitted commy countries against one another after the war was over. Vietnam fought China, and also Laos or Cambodia after the US withdrawal.
 
One thing that we need to take into consideration is the fact that America never lost a major battle. Even Tet, which is vaunted as the turning point of the war, was a huge military disaster. The V.C. wasnt even considered an effective fighting force after 1968. America cut their own throats in Vietnam, much like we are doing today. I hate to say it, but a large part of the American Military where the ****ups that didnt get promotions after Korea. Also, this was the first time we fought a war with a completely professional military, people who actually had careers to ruin, and so cover your ass become much more a needed thing. If you want any insight into Vietnam, read Fields of Fire by James Webb and Soldier by Anthony Herbert. amazing books, both of them. But yes, the political situation lost the war for america.
 
Lundin, I couldn't agree with you more on Vietnam. After Tet, the North was decimated. Their combat power was eliminated almost wholesale. Unfortunatley that one sided liberal by the name of Walter Kronkite said "Vietnam was unwinnable." Im pretty sure it was Kronkite. But anyways, it was bs reporting back then that did us in. Our most important victory somehow was made to look like a defeat in the press. Kind of like Dan Rathers reporting today! :roll:

Ps.. The politicians sure as hell didn't help either.
 
Ummm, I heard they've been trying to rotate the party leadership in Vietnam for a while since it is mostly made up of oldtimers... is this true? Also, a few of my shit's are made in vietnam.... if I could somehow put a tracer on my money, where would the various percentages of the money go? I wanna see how communal socialism works in a capitalistic world economy; where does my cash go when the US and Vietnam buys each other's products?
 
Winners: United States Military, NVA, Vietcong

Losers: United States Military, United States People, South Vietnam

Consequences: United States military morale was at an all time low lasting two decades up till Desert Storm, but we learned many essential lessons about warfare. The NVA were able to take control of all of Vietnam, hence their win. The United States people had to live with the fact that they had failed for the first time in the history of the United States, out aura of invincibility was gone. Oh yes, and the hippies caused us to lose the war, it was a political loss, not a military loss.
 
The VC were not victorious at all. When I was there any VC we found were actually North Vietnamese pretending to be home grown S. Vietnamese. By that time the Viet Cong did not exist. I fought North Vietnamese and Chinese troops. We captured Chinese officers. The U.S. never lost a major battle in all the time we were there. The North had its share of USSR supplied and piloted MIGs (including mig21 fishbeds) which were state of the art aircraft.
This war was much more than the U.S. fighting a peasant army. Just below the surface it was a war among the super powers of the day(U.S. vs. U.S.S.R. and China).
 
The Tet Offensive is touted as a great victory for the VC. In truth, their losses from Tet were so severe that they were only capable of opperating as well as they did via NVA troops being smuggled into South Vietnam. At the point of US withdrawal, at least 70% of the guerilla forces we were fighting were from the NVA and not the Vietcong. Had it just been between the VC and the USA+ the SVA, the war wouldn't have lasted for very long.
 
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