Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

Wasn't most of the problems associated with the M16 attributed to the ammunition? If I remember correctly cleaning kits weren't issued to troops.

My apologies for interrupting.

The powder that was used in the M16 during the testing phase burned cleaner than the powder the government used when it went into use by the US armed forces. This caused gumming within the chamber, particularly in the extrememly humid environment of Vietnam. The chamber was also not chromed at the time which caused it to rust within hours of exposure to, again, the extreme humid climate. During the rush to get the weapon into the hands of the ground forces they forgot to supply enough cleaning kits to the troops on the ground. Most the Marines had cleaning kits, but many of them lacked the cleaning rod to clean out the barrel. It was usually only the squad leaders that had the cleaning rods which exacerbated the problem twofold. One, the grunts were not able to clean out the barrel as much as needed, and second, when the weapon malfunctioned it was often because the round expanded within the chamber and because of the foul build up, created a lot of friction upon the casing when it was supposed to be extracted. Often times it would stay caught within the chamber with the extractor slipping over the lip of the bottom of the casing, furthermore, a large percentage of the time it would rip the bottom of the casing right off. The only way one could get the casing out of the chamber was with that cleaning rod...thus...many soldiers and Marines died with their weapons broken open or with sticks, bamboo, or cleaning rods shoved down their barrels.

The book mentioned was excellent. At the same time it was absolutely horrifying. I would reccomend anyone on here to read that book if they're interested about how fighting on the DMZ was for US forces during Vietnam.

caveat...my dad served in that very unit during Vietnam...

Now, back to topic!

VDKMS, you answered the question so the next question is on you.

6 RAR received a US Presidential Citation for what achievement (no Google!)

Originally Posted by Rowan

6 RAR received a US Presidential Citation for what achievement (no Google!)

My guess would be the Battle of Long Tan but I thought only 1 company received it.

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

Wasn't most of the problems associated with the M16 attributed to the ammunition? If I remember correctly cleaning kits weren't issued to troops.

My apologies for interrupting.

Originally Posted by VDKMS

I've read that it jammed a lot and that it needed lots and lots of cleaning. I thought it was because the moving parts got contaminated very easely, but I'm not sure. If I'm not mistaken the special forces uses th M-16 with the H&K system which Colt could also supply but the army wanted the original concept.

Originally Posted by brinktk

The powder that was used in the M16 during the testing phase burned cleaner than the powder the government used when it went into use by the US armed forces. This caused gumming within the chamber, particularly in the extrememly humid environment of Vietnam. The chamber was also not chromed at the time which caused it to rust within hours of exposure to, again, the extreme humid climate. During the rush to get the weapon into the hands of the ground forces they forgot to supply enough cleaning kits to the troops on the ground. Most the Marines had cleaning kits, but many of them lacked the cleaning rod to clean out the barrel. It was usually only the squad leaders that had the cleaning rods which exacerbated the problem twofold. One, the grunts were not able to clean out the barrel as much as needed, and second, when the weapon malfunctioned it was often because the round expanded within the chamber and because of the foul build up, created a lot of friction upon the casing when it was supposed to be extracted. Often times it would stay caught within the chamber with the extractor slipping over the lip of the bottom of the casing, furthermore, a large percentage of the time it would rip the bottom of the casing right off. The only way one could get the casing out of the chamber was with that cleaning rod...thus...many soldiers and Marines died with their weapons broken open or with sticks, bamboo, or cleaning rods shoved down their barrels.

The book mentioned was excellent. At the same time it was absolutely horrifying. I would reccomend anyone on here to read that book if they're interested about how fighting on the DMZ was for US forces during Vietnam.

caveat...my dad served in that very unit during Vietnam...

Now, back to topic!

Stoner designed the AR-15 for use with a specific type of powder that the Army didn't have any of, but they had huge amounts of the powder used in the 7.62 NATO & 30-06 ammo that they didn't want to "waste" so they used it. The results were higher than designed M/V, cyclical rates, & over expanded brass that stuck in the chamber, plus the other problems. For a while the USAF bought AR-15s with Stoner spec ammo & had no problems, eventually forced to buy the Army stuff with the accompanied problems.

As a footnote I'd like to point out that many grunts coveted the AK-47's whenever possible which many considered to be far superior to the 15 & 16 .

My guess it would have something to do with Bien Hoa 1966 .

Originally Posted by tetvet

My guess it would have something to do with Bien Hoa 1966 .

During the Vietnam War the battalion earned a Presidential Unit Citation from the United States, when members from 'D' Company participated in the Battle of Long Tan on 18–19 August 1966.

However I don't think Rowan will be responding as he has the "Banned" logo next to his name so I would suggest that the floor is now open for questions.

Originally Posted by MontyB

During the Vietnam War the battalion earned a Presidential Unit Citation from the United States, when members from 'D' Company participated in the Battle of Long Tan on 18–19 August 1966.

However I don't think Rowan will be responding as he has the "Banned" logo next to his name so I would suggest that the floor is now open for questions.

You are correct Monty, I think you should start it!

Ok I will try but I don't know enough about the war to ask anything technical...



This is the shield of a company that served in Vietnam from 14 November 1969 to 10 November 1970:

A) Where was it formed.
B) What units was it formed from.