The venus project and its view on the military

Agree/disagree (post opinions too please ^.^)

  • agree

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • disagree

    Votes: 2 40.0%

  • Total voters
    5

zeroRooter

New Member
Now before i start this and before i get killed, let me say that (considering the circumstances of our world) it is obviously a good thing to have a military with dedicated soldiers such as the majority of you are.

However i recently went to a lecture given by Jaques Fresco (leader of the venus project) and he pointed out the following:

N.B. THIS IS FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY DO NOT FLAME ME PLEASE!

He pointed out that, [paraphrased] As long as we have a military, and as long as we have nuclear weapons, bombs, submarines etc... we are not a civilized society, and that anyone who considers us to be civlized (including the western world) is an idiot.

Thoughts?
 
Does it matter?
"As long as we have a military, and as long as we have nuclear weapons, bombs, submarines etc..." quote
Others should be careful about calling us uncivilized, it might bring out our primeval instincts causing us to blow the c**p out of them.:)

Notice the happy face, that means I have a sense of humor, a civilized trait! Sorta of.
 
Noble sentiment but regrettably a totally unrealistic one.

If we are to accept that we need to completely eliminate the military in order to become "civilized" then essentially he is making the argument that humanity throughout its entire history has never been civilized. Every major "civilization" Egyptian, Greek, Byzantine, Roman, Mayan, Aztec, etc has had a military both to attack and defend against its neighbors.

Or, if there have been "civilized" countries (according to Fresco's definition) they obviously didn't last very long as they got swallowed up by their "uncivilized" neighbors.
 
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A world without war. A world without all the problems we have now.

Try to imagine it. Would it not be wonderful? It would be nice. I say it would be, for it is unlikely it will ever happen. There is one obstacle to this solution and it’s simply that all people on earth will have to want it and do something. As a kind of large joint project in which all become friends and realize that there isn’t much difference between us and if there is, it’s something we should accept and not despise.

That is how we should think if it should happen. That we all are equal and deserve the same. I think that it’s a good thing that people are idealists but it is not so good if you simultaneously isn’t a realist

So unfortunately, another utopian idea.
 
Noble sentiment but regrettably a totally unrealistic one.

If we are to accept that we need to completely eliminate the military in order to become "civilized" then essentially he is making the argument that humanity throughout its entire history has never been civilized. Every major "civilization" Egyptian, Greek, Byzantine, Roman, Mayan, Aztec, etc has had a military both to attack and defend against its neighbors.

Or, if there have been "civilized" countries (according to Fresco's definition) they obviously didn't last very long as they got swallowed up by their "uncivilized" neighbors.

Fair point. Without war, society would have been totally different. The argument he is trying to make is to try and make a perfect world from...well...an imperfect world to be totally frank. because a world built on war is imperfect...then....what we have always lived for is.....imperfect. What's the purpose in the human race living any more?
 
Now before i start this and before i get killed, let me say that (considering the circumstances of our world) it is obviously a good thing to have a military with dedicated soldiers such as the majority of you are.

However i recently went to a lecture given by Jaques Fresco (leader of the venus project) and he pointed out the following:

N.B. THIS IS FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY DO NOT FLAME ME PLEASE!

He pointed out that, [paraphrased] As long as we have a military, and as long as we have nuclear weapons, bombs, submarines etc... we are not a civilized society, and that anyone who considers us to be civlized (including the western world) is an idiot.

Thoughts?

So what would voting in agreement mean. What would a disagree vote mean.

Agree means that we do not live in a "civilized society"
or
that if we consider ourselves civilized we are idiots?

Disagree means that we do live in a "civilized society"
or
that if we consider ourselves civilized we are not idiots?

Other possibilities for a vote are:

Paid to go to a Jaques Fresco lecture, so I am an idiot.

Did not have to pay to go to a Jaques Fresco lecture, but still and idiot.

Jaques Fresco seems to have had a long career in engineering and design. His opinions in social planning is not as recognizable.
The Venus Project is a two part business, a non profit company called 'Future by Design' [10] and a for profit company called 'Venus Project Inc./Global Cybervisions Inc.'[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco
 
Noble sentiment but regrettably a totally unrealistic one.

If we are to accept that we need to completely eliminate the military in order to become "civilized" then essentially he is making the argument that humanity throughout its entire history has never been civilized. Every major "civilization" Egyptian, Greek, Byzantine, Roman, Mayan, Aztec, etc has had a military both to attack and defend against its neighbors.

Or, if there have been "civilized" countries (according to Fresco's definition) they obviously didn't last very long as they got swallowed up by their "uncivilized" neighbors.

I think it's worth considering that maybe that's absolutely right. As long as people conducted themselves in such a way that there was a perceived need to attack or defend against anyone else, that they aren't civilized at all. Just because a termite colony can work together and build something impressive, it doesn't mean that they're enlightened or have anything figured out. They'll still go to war over territory and food sources and whatever else 2 termite colonies have conflicts over. We, as a species, are still letting that exact same kind of primitive thinking have a huge dramatic effect on our culture and lives. And it's the same kind of resource fights as there have been since we were fighting with rocks and clubs, only now it's predator drones and stealth bombers. What part of that is "civilized"? We'll be civilized when we drop that b******t, and start to look at the world as a living thing that's pretty important to our survival, and then start acting accordingly.
 
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