Venezuela may buy upgraded T-72

R

rock45

Active member
Russia & CIS

07:53 GMT, Oct 17, 2008 Latest Headlines...

Russia may sell upgraded T-72 tanks to Venezuela - defense sector source

MOSCOW. Oct 17 (Interfax-AVN) - Moscow and Caracas are engaged in
talks that may lead to the signing of a contract on the delivery of
T-72M tanks to Venezuela, a high-ranking source in the Russian defense
sector told Interfax-AVN on Friday.
"Apart from the prospective purchase of submarines and air defense
systems from Russia, Venezuela is considering buying tanks. I am
speaking about an upgraded version of the T-72M tank manufactured by
Uralvagonzavod. The parties are holding negotiations on the signing of
such contracts," he said.
Venezuelan Armed Forces General Staff chief Gen. Jesus Gonzalez
said earlier that his country plans to purchase a large number of T-72
tanks from Russia.






http://www.interfax.com/3/437408/news.aspx
 
T-72

I have no idea what so ever I can't understand why Chavez's would be rushing for. This doesn't make sense something is missing here.

Brazil could bring that tank back from retirement the one they were trying to build in the 80s I think and do battle with a T-72. I think it had a German designed gun on it.

Colombia doesn't have a tank force but assume have anti-weapons.
 
SHERMAN said:
Why would they buy that garbage?
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I guess most of the NATO countries (like Germany's Leopards, Britain's Challengers, France's Leclercs, or even USA's Abrams) won't sell their tanks to Venezuela and Chavez has no choose but Russia or China?
 
I guess most of the NATO countries (like Germany's Leopards, Britain's Challengers, France's Leclercs, or even USA's Abrams) won't sell their tanks to Venezuela and Chavez has no choose but Russia or China?
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Yes but why not T-90 or Chinese Type-95?
Brazil could bring that tank back from retirement the one they were trying to build in the 80s I think and do battle with a T-72. I think it had a German designed gun on it.
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Brazil has M60A3 and Leo 1A1(possiblty even A5). They gave up the Osorio long ago. Either way the M60A3 is a match for T-72s.
 
AMX-30 is just as good at scaring people and Venezuela already has them...That is what is wierd about it.
 
Yeah I have a tough time seeing how tank formations will do in dense jungle.

You think upgraded M-48s could take on the T-72? I hear the highest end upgraded M-48s are actually just as good as the basic M-60 tank. But I think that's only something a tanker can answer.
 
Mmmm. I think M48 with the highest ammount of upgrades can match and at some areas beat a T-72. But I think the M60 was as good as the T-72.
 
Topmaul said:
South America is not tank country these tanks are to keep the population in line.
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+1. They aren't gonig to make any sweeping breakouts with large armor formations in South America. Especially in the jungles and mountains. Kina of like South and Central American Airborne Forces in the 80's. They had em but not the lift assets.
 
Tanks

Looking at some basic maps not all is jungle covered but tanks movement seems limited in certain areas. I can see tanks traps or ambush teams carried out hit and runs and then slipping into the jungle forest.

There are roads and highways between Colombia and Venezuela that can be used by mechanized forces.

Colombia uses UAV not sure against the FARC but they have them. Not sure how effective they are in jungle warfare.

I don't know you guys even fight in the jungles I don't like going camping when it's wet. How the hell do you guys carry heavy weapons and operate in all that rain. I assume jungle fighting is the worse for the foot soldiers?

UAV links for Colombia and the FARC
http://www.acrtucson.com/UAVgallery/silverfox/Colombia.html
http://www.armscontrol.ru/UAV/clips.htm

Elbit Touts Hermes/ Sylark UAV Sale in South America


http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Elbit-Touts-Hermes-Sylark-UAV-Sale-in-South-America-05054/
 
Alot of those areas are soft ground and then you have the mountains, those highways aren't what one would consider MSR's in alot of areas. Any large armor force is pretty much confined to the roads ala 30 Corps in Holland. Not alot of manuvering and break out room.
 
South American Tank battles are about as useful as two drunken chimps sword fighting a turnip.

It's to quell the civilian up rising. Tanks are great against peasants armed with sticks and stones.
 
5.56X45mm said:
South American Tank battles are about as useful as two drunken chimps sword fighting a turnip.

It's to quell the civilian up rising. Tanks are great against peasants armed with sticks and stones.
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In that case then maybe Chinese tanks would be a better purchase:tank:
 
T-62

Now I see its T-62 tanks some one needs to make up their mind.

We're buying mid-sized T-62 (Russian) tanks ... reconnaissance tanks and other models offered us."
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Thu Oct 16, 5:04 pm ET
CARACAS (AFP) – Venezuela is buying more Russian weapons, including armored personnel carriers and tanks, to replace aging ordnance and to improve the country's security and defense capabilities, a top military commander said Thursday.
"We could be talking about 100 to 500 tanks. Right now it's impossible to know ... because strategic research studies are still underway (and) we're still negotiating," Strategic Operations Command chief General Jesus Gonzalez told reporters.
The general was confirming an Interfax news agency report Wednesday about a Russian weapon shipments to Venezuela, which Russian arms export agency deputy director Igor Sevastyanov said included "a large number of BMP-3 armoured personnel carriers" and multiple rocket launchers.
The move follows increasingly closer Russian-Venezuelan relations and 4.4 billion dollars in bilateral arms deals signed since 2005 that have raised US concerns, especially in view of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's fierce anti-American stance.
After meeting with a visiting top-level Russian delegation headed by Security Council secretary Nikolai Patrushev, Gonzalez said "nobody should be surprised or afraid" about the arms deal and growing friendship between the two countries.
"Our security and defense require the purchase of airplanes, helicopter and tanks," he added without mentioning a price tag for the recent weapons deal.
Moscow, he said, "is now supplying us with the materials we need for our defense," including armored personnel carriers.
He said Venezuela needed tanks "because the French AMX tanks we got 30 years ago are quite old now, and the Scorpio tanks from Britain are also quite old. We're buying mid-sized T-62 (Russian) tanks ... reconnaissance tanks and other models offered us."
Venezuela and Russia's "decision to have bilateral, technical-military trade is firm and permanent," the Venezuelan general stressed.
Venezuela has already bought 24 Sukhoi fighter jets, 50 helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles from Russia.
During a visit by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to Moscow last month, Russia announced it was giving Venezuela a one-billion-dollar credit to buy Russian weapons and the two countries discussed nuclear energy cooperation.
They are also planning joint naval exercises in the Caribbean in November.
US military chiefs have said they are concerned about the military build-up in Venezuela and the US State Department has said it will be watching the Russian-Venezuelan naval exercises "very closely."


Link
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081016/wl_afp/venezuelarussiaweaponsmilitary_081016210425/print
 
If it's not for cracking down on demonstrators it's probably to use for city defense. I can't see any way anyone would use tanks like that in the jungle to any effect. Usually the ground is so thick with hubris that you're not going to get traction to move around, and this is assuming someone's cutting a road in front of you as you go along. Basically impractical.
As for infantry, the jungle can work both for you or against you but it WILL be miserable. Because it's so wet you have to make changes that most regular armies either can't or won't think of or do.
 
Venezuela

This tank proccess is getting out of hand can I assume France won't sell to Venezuela because of that French hostage that was being held the Colombian FARC?

I always wondered why France didn't try to get more follow up South American sales. At one point many years ago just about every country had Mirage III/V? It's not like the F-16 kick their axx only one country has Vipers. I guess it's a money thing and they priced themselves out of busniess.

If I were Venezuela I would focus on:
Getting more training for my Flanker air crews and ground crews
Buy a second squadron already
Get Russia to build a aircraft and helicopter repair and service center in Venezuela
Build up my air defenses
Double my helicopter fleet
Get some nasty anti-ship missiles for the navy
Upgrade my artillery units with modern equipment
BMP-3 seem like a good investment
Tanks? Not so sure
I think a wheeled IFV/APC vehicle is needed as well.

You tanks guys I know not much is known about them but is the type-95/96/97/98 better tanks then the T-62/72 Russia seems to be offering?

I thought Sudan has a number of type-96 tanks, I saw them on youtube in some prade or something. Does anybody know if its a good performer?

the_13th_redneck
The little that I know about jungle fighting, internet, books, war doc programs, and bad army movies, moving just a few miles could take hours depending on the terrain. I don't think you could take a average infantry battalion without extra training and put them in jungle would be very effective. Besides the rain the heat sucks the water out your body and there's a huge need for clean water, not always easy to find.
 
In the jungle, the infantry is the only way you're going to go from one place to another and hold it. Infantry and anything you can sling under a helicopter, but then you better have a lot of money.
 
You tanks guys I know not much is known about them but is the type-95/96/97/98 better tanks then the T-62/72 Russia seems to be offering?
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T-72 is not a bad product but its much older than the Type-95 and Type-98. The T-62 wasa very bad tank mainly due to its very badly designed auto-extractor.
 
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