Venezuela to Buy Subs on Credit

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rock45

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Venezuela to Buy Subs on Credit

Venezuela is negotiating with Moscow for a loan of up to $800 million as partial purchase price of four project 636 submarines to be ordered in Russia. In spite of the influx of petrodollars in that country, experts say that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez needs money for his social programs and is looking for new sources of military financing. Vneshekonombank is said to be the source of the loans. Chavez will sign a contract for the submarines when he is in Moscow for the inauguration of Russian President Elect Dmitry Medvedev. The order will be split between Admiralteiskie Wharfs in St. Petersburg and the Amur Shipbuilding Plant.
The terms of the contract were agreed on at the end of last year. Chavez was to visit Russia in February and sign the contract while he was here. The conflict between that country and Colombia was the formal reason for the cancellation of that trip, although the real reason was commonly understood to be Chavez's desire to meet the new Russian president.

Negotiations are also underway on the purchase of 12 Il-76 heavy military transport planes, with a repair station and training center in Caracas. Chavez may be offered new Su-35 models while he is in Moscow as well. The contract for the submarines is worth no less than $1 billion and the Il-76 planes will boost the price of the total order to $1.5 billion. Observers say the loan is a risky one. Chavez has active opposition in Venezuela that has tried to overthrow him repeatedly and come close to succeeding. He is not expected to go to war with anyone. As one Russian official commented, “He simply likes saber-rattling.”

Link
http://www.kommersant.com/p876312/arms_trade/
 
Questions

First isn't odd he would wants to barrow money if Algeria makes $1.5 billion a week in there oil/gas profits wouldn't Venezuela be doing better at being the worlds 5th larger producer?

How long does it take to build one of these subs never mind four other? And what happens if Chavez's gets bumped, leaves, retires, falls in a hole and the next guy doesn't want the subs. How does a country or government secure arms deals do they put down a deposit? Are third party banks use? How does the process work?

If fighter pilots take 4 to 5 years to learn the trade how long does it take to train up sub crews? Is this something Chavez should even be doing or is a waste of money and time?
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Obviously he wants to start U-boat raids along the US east coast and he needs real subs to fuel his imagination.
 
Hence, to help fuel his imagination. He'll be sitting by the Naval base with a sailor cap... a Cuban cigar from Fidel Castro in one hand... imagining great raids on the USN on the East Coast as his subs sit idly at their docks.
 
CHavez subs

I just just can't see this working nor Russia selling the subs it's too much a risk. Trying to pre-sign for the Su-35 makes sense Russia always needs the advance funding to get a new model into production but subs? You guys made laugh tonight with mariachi bands and east coast U-boat raids, keep it up.
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rock45 said:
I just just can't see this working nor Russia selling the subs it's too much a risk. Trying to pre-sign for the Su-35 makes sense Russia always needs the advance funding to get a new model into production but subs? You guys made laugh tonight with mariachi bands and east coast U-boat raids, keep it up.
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I imagine there is a little more to this contract than meets the eye at a guess I would say that the loan is being offset against some other financial agreement (Oil springs to mind or maybe even a deal to provide the cruise liner for the mariachi bands), I am reasonably confident that the Russians are not just handing out billion dollar loans on a smile and a handshake.
 
This clown makes a megolamainac look shy. Where`s the fuding for training and maintenance comig from?
 
Sub question

If this deal went through could Chavez buy the "Sizzler" NATO code name SS-N-27B? Can these four future Venezuelan subs fire this missile? I hope not.

I was going to start a new post but where talking about subs here so I figure add it in. I wouldn't want to be a ship with six or eight of these flying at me. After seeing the Falkland Island war clips of the missiles slamming into the UK Warships I still don't believe every missile can be stop. I know that's 1982 tech and things change but being on a ship with those things fired at is just nasty.

A little quote from the article on what this nasty missiles can do.
Charts prepared by the Navy for a February 2005 briefing for defense contractors said the Sizzler, which is also called the SS-N-27B, starts out flying at subsonic speeds. Within 10 nautical miles of its target, a rocket-propelled warhead separates and accelerates to three times the speed of sound, flying no more than 10 meters (33 feet) above sea level.
Final Approach
On final approach, the missile ``has the potential to perform very high defensive maneuvers,'' including sharp-angled dodges, the Office of Naval Intelligence said in a manual on worldwide maritime threats.
The Sizzler is ``unique,'' the Defense Science Board, an independent agency within the Pentagon that provides assessments of major defense issues, said in an October 2005 report. Most anti-ship cruise missiles fly below the speed of sound and on a straight path, making them easier to track and target.




Link
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&refer=home&sid=a5LkaU0wj714
 
I don't think it really matters as he still has to train crews, support staff, build facilities and develop and pay for maintenance of said vessels and weapons.

Pretty much any idiot can buy good equipment but without well trained and experienced crews and maintenance staff those subs are going to be more dangerous to the environment than anything else.
 
Can I buy one with my credit card and promise that starting with me, generations of my family will pay back bit by bit?
 
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