Vatican reaffirms celibacy for priests (AP)

DTop said:
You can't be trying to blame creeping secularization on the requirement of celibacy in the priesthood. The fact of the matter is that Catholicism is growing in many parts of the world. IUnitl the time comes that the Pope deems it appropriate to change the requirement, then it is part and parcel of the Catholic faith.

I view priestly celibacy as a gift and admire anyone strong enough in their faith and open enough to the calling to accept the gift. To me, to abandon everything for Christ is truly a call from God. This in no way means that it will always be easy, but then no true vocation is always easy.

Celibacy, which describes the state of being unmarried, has been an issue in the Church throughout her history, and there has been much misunderstanding, that continues in recent times. The law requiring a celibate clergy developed over centuries. However, historical documents clearly show that not only is the ideal of celibacy found in the Gospels, but that it was practiced from the very beginning of the Church.

It's true that some of the apostles had wives however, they never lived together as husband and wife once they began to follow Christ. In a recent definitive study, Cardinal Alfons Stickler maintains that celibacy is a mandate from Christ Himself and the Church can only obey it, not change it. Even though the Eastern Orthodox Churches allow their priests to marry, their bishops must be celibate. I think that this is an example indicating that celibacy has always been part of the Tradition.

OK I'm off my soapbox (for now) :)
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Actually I wasn't, (although secularization is a factor too)

I was referring to other Christian faiths that have been picking off Catholic chruch goers for years in Christian nations, as well as the rise of Islam which is rapidly spreading across Asia-Africa. Catholicism is growing only in Africa, but its only replacing tribal pagan religons (and not completely either, African catholism is a mishmash of Christianity and Paganism, its not what you call Roman Catholism). For example most families in Africa place a cruxifix in their household right next to the household idols to pagan gods. Furthermore while it is growing in Africa, Islam is growing at a even faster rate, and worldwide Catholicism is on a major decline.

Celibacy might be a beautiful thing, but good luck trying to convincing young men and their hormones to take that path. Perhaps the church might change that view, but it better do it fast. There is no beauty in extinction, which is precisely where its heading without a change of certain church doctrines.
 
Well, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. It seem you and I see the Church from different perspectives. Well, I've got to get off to wok but I first need to stop off at the church to finish putting up some shelves in our new church. You see, the old one was fine and only 40 yrs. old but it only holds about 800 people. This new one holds at least 1500. I sure hope we didn't build it for that shrinking church you're talking about ;)
Oh BTW, we just did a fund raiser (on Saturday) to help sponsor our new seminarians.
 
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Pretty sure Jesus was a pimp....

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Donkey, don't use offensive language about another member's religious beliefs. That goes for all religions of members of the board. If you disagree, do it without name calling.

But regardless we all know the health benefits of having "relations"...From being happy to keeping a healthy heart....But meh whatever I'm not a Catholic....
 
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mmarsh said:
I think celibacy had its time, but its an option that is less and less popular as time goes by. Remember there is nothing in the Catholic canon that demands that priests remain celibate, only a tradition that Saint Peter started.

Personally I think its time to give up the requirement, its to much of a burden and increases the likelyhood of an embarrassing sex-scandal.

Things that do not evolve eventually die, and already the dwindling numbers of practicing Catholics shows this.
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.... in France certainly

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../10/wfra10.xml

FRANCE NO LONGER A CATHOLIC COUNTRY :crybaby:
 
I am not vaguely religious, however I hold no ill will against anyone who benefits from their beliefs so long as they leave me alone.

Personally I feel that celibacy is unnatural and does not help in the cases we are seeing of child abuse within some religious groups. As for those cases within non celibate communities, I have no comment lest I am banned, these are the people most likely to drag me down to their level, as I could gladly resort to torture.
 
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Padre

I saw that article yesterday, its a load of tripe.

First of all, its a single poll, and Secondly La Monde is a by the far left which in France is always anti-Religon. The fact remains (as Gator pointed out, and I will include a 2nd link) There are 45 Million (out of 60 Million) bapitisted Catholics in France representing 73%-75% of the population. Many of those do not actively practice, but thats common occurence in all religons. It is by far the most dominate religion and will remain so, despite the shrinking attandence at the services.

I know French Communists who still refer to themselves as Catholic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_France

Then lets not forget that after Rome, Lourdes is one of the most sacred of sites for Roman Catholics.

These people may not actively practice their religion as before but to say that France is no longer Catholic is a wildly inaccurate statement.

As to the dwindling numbers of Catholics this is just in the USA alone...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2004-11-07-church-main_x.htm

This is from Patrick Buchanan, an American conservative and Irish Catholic. He hits it right on the head.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43733


This is a Book review on someone who studied the issue

http://www.ccri.edu/currents/05-may/index.shtml

As I said Catholicism is only really growing in Africa and parts of Asia. Its in Decline in its traditional strongpoints America, Europe. This decline has been especially sharp since the Start of Vatican II.
 
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OK Mmarsh. I'll give credit where credit is due. Good post above. :thumb:

I think I've been too harsh on the French in this forum in different posts. My prejudice has been formed by the few I got to know in Rome who were stereotypically arrogant and ungrateful especially in relation to allied sacrifices in WWII.... and the sinking of the NZ vessel Rainbow warrior by French agents......and French nuclear testing in the Pacific adversely affecting the health of thousands of Pacific islanders. These are not enough, on reflection, to maintain a bias against the French.

...Oh and PS on the extinction of Catholic priests due to celibacy rule...ordinations to the Catholic Priesthood are rising worldwide but decreasing in many Western countries. Me thinks its got more to do with Western materialism than teenage male hormones.
 
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Padre, and here I thought you were merely upset about France having more Saints than Australia.

Don't worry about it, you can still out drink the French.
 
No argument here, as I had some rather tasty Australian wine with my dinner this evening.
Australia must give the French fits over wine now days.
Is Fosters up for sale? The French may buy it in retaliation.
 
Gator said:
Padre, and here I thought you were merely upset about France having more Saints than Australia.

Don't worry about it, you can still out drink the French.
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do you mean officially declared saints who have feast days on the liturgical calendar or souls in heaven where France' score may be less impressive in comparison?

Australia has a long long way to go to catch up to France on the homicide and rape of Christians, nuns, clergy - oh, and some saint named Joan.
 
Padre said:
do you mean officially declared saints who have feast days on the liturgical calendar or souls in heaven where France' score may be less impressive in comparison?

Australia has a long long way to go to catch up to France on the homicide and rape of Christians, nuns, clergy - oh, and some saint named Joan.
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Maybe because France is a much older country? And you Aussies have a fair share of blood on your hands too, just ask the aborigines.

What exactly are you referring to? There was never a purge of Catholics in France. There was some of protestants during the 30 and 100 years war although France can hardly be singled out of that. There were lots of guilty parties. And the worst of it was in Germany and in the lowlands.
 
I still don't follow you. Perhaps we misunderstood each other?

Are you saying that France has had a bloodier history? Well yes, thats sort of obvious. France/Gaul is over 3000 years old, Australia (as an independent country) is just over 100. Not to mention that France's population is 3 times larger. But even compared to the rest of the world, France is not where the worst blood letting (even of Christians) was.
All countries including the USA, France and Australia have had periods of innocent blood on their hands at one point in time or another. I don't think its fair to single out just a single nation. The Reign of Terror was certainly bloody, but it wasn't based on religious grounds, nor was it the most violent period in French history.

Perhaps I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about the systematic extermination of Catholics. And while their was a purge of protestants (called Huguenots) for a time, I don't know of a persecution of Catholics in France. There were massive exterminations in the Holy Roman Empire, Eastern Europe, and in Britain.

BTW (temporarily Off Topic)

I admit it injurys pride, but most French will agree that Australian wine is excellent. I wouldnt say its better, it just different. You cannot really compare French vs Australian. They are not the same, different climate, levels of light, levels of rain, different berries. etc. It's just a matter of Personal preference. I work for a Cigar company, its the same deal, you cannot really compare tobacco from Indonesia vs tobacco from Cuba, its Just a different taste. Ditto with Californian wine.
 
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bulldogg said:
Just as long as they keep their hands off XXXX.
:)
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I wouldn't worry about the French getting XXXX its already owned by Lion Nathan Limited so it is owned by a New Zealand company along woth Toohey's and Swan, its all part of a cunning plan to control Australia through the purchase of its breweries.


:)
 
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