USSR v Western Allies circa 1945 - who would win and why? - Page 16




View Poll Results :USSR v Western Allies circa 1945 - who would win and why?
USSR 12 46.15%
Western Allies 14 53.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

 
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December 18th, 2004  
Doppleganger
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lght1
Hi

I disagree.

With some 250,000 ex-Afrika Korps soldiers and concluding with Model's pocket in '45, there was ample quantity and quantity to supplement Allied manpower.

While the USSR captured hordes of German troops, mistreatment would have more than offset any quatative advantage the ost army may have had.
Hello. Let's see some proof to back up this claim of the 'quality' of captured German troops by the West. if you read the link I provided, which is backed up by respected sources, you'll see that on average the quality of the Wehrmacht in 1944 on the Western Front was quite a bit lower than it had been in 1941. Anyway, the Deutsch Afrikakorps were not the cream of the Wehrmacht by any stretch of the imagination.

How would mistreatment by the USSR have offset the quality of their captured POWs? If these troops were promised that they would be reunited with the Fatherland and a chance to see their homes and families again I think they would fight and fight hard. I mean, wouldn't you if you were made that promise?
December 18th, 2004  
Damien435
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
Hello. Let's see some proof to back up this claim of the 'quality' of captured German troops by the West. if you read the link I provided, which is backed up by respected sources, you'll see that on average the quality of the Wehrmacht in 1944 on the Western Front was quite a bit lower than it had been in 1941. Anyway, the Deutsch Afrikakorps were not the cream of the Wehrmacht by any stretch of the imagination.

How would mistreatment by the USSR have offset the quality of their captured POWs? If these troops were promised that they would be reunited with the Fatherland and a chance to see their homes and families again I think they would fight and fight hard. I mean, wouldn't you if you were made that promise?
But the Germans would not believe such lies, which is what they would be, Stalin would never let them fight for the USSR, he would just keep sending the POW's out to cut more firewood, eat a diet not much better than the concentration camps, and after dying they were trown into trenches, not even buried, and left to freeze in the middle of a Russian winter.
December 18th, 2004  
Doppleganger
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
Hello. Let's see some proof to back up this claim of the 'quality' of captured German troops by the West. if you read the link I provided, which is backed up by respected sources, you'll see that on average the quality of the Wehrmacht in 1944 on the Western Front was quite a bit lower than it had been in 1941. Anyway, the Deutsch Afrikakorps were not the cream of the Wehrmacht by any stretch of the imagination.

How would mistreatment by the USSR have offset the quality of their captured POWs? If these troops were promised that they would be reunited with the Fatherland and a chance to see their homes and families again I think they would fight and fight hard. I mean, wouldn't you if you were made that promise?
But the Germans would not believe such lies, which is what they would be, Stalin would never let them fight for the USSR, he would just keep sending the POW's out to cut more firewood, eat a diet not much better than the concentration camps, and after dying they were trown into trenches, not even buried, and left to freeze in the middle of a Russian winter.
Who knows you might be right, but the point I'm making is that they had the better quality POWs. They wouldn't be fighting for the USSR in their eyes anyway - they'd be fighting for Germany albeit a Soviet dominated one.
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December 18th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
I doubt the German POW's held by the USSR (those that hadn't been shot, starved or otherwise killed) would have been very willing to fight for the USSR. Very unlikely. Conversely, Russians would trust those Germans available to them ... about as much as I trust a rattlesnake enough to stuff it down my pants. The commanders held by each side would be pretty big. Many, many of the best and brightest ran for W Germany to surrender to the Western Allies, not trusting the tender mercies of the Soviets (who had very strong reason for wanting revenge). But ultimately, I don't know who ended up with the best. If memory serves, Guderian was initially held by Russia, but I don't remember for sure. I might have to look it up, don't remember ...
December 18th, 2004  
Doppleganger
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
I doubt the German POW's held by the USSR (those that hadn't been shot, starved or otherwise killed) would have been very willing to fight for the USSR. Very unlikely. Conversely, Russians would trust those Germans available to them ... about as much as I trust a rattlesnake enough to stuff it down my pants. The commanders held by each side would be pretty big. Many, many of the best and brightest ran for W Germany to surrender to the Western Allies, not trusting the tender mercies of the Soviets (who had very strong reason for wanting revenge). But ultimately, I don't know who ended up with the best. If memory serves, Guderian was initially held by Russia, but I don't remember for sure. I might have to look it up, don't remember ...
I think this thread is getting sidetracked. The point I was making was that the German prisoner pool held by the Western Allies was not of the highest quality. Let's leave it at that.

Guderian surrendered to US Army units in May 1945. The Soviets wanted him for war crimes but the US authorities refused to hand him over.
December 19th, 2004  
lght1
 
Hi


"How would mistreatment by the USSR have offset the quality of their captured POWs?"

Thats a nonsensical question. The fact that German POWs were starved in some cases, to death, denied any type of medical care, and worked to extinction flies in the face of your question.

Another funny speculation, is your feelings that the German POWs would somehow fight for a "Sovietized" Germany. Had the USSR been so foolish to arm these troops in such a conflict, they would have soon found them selves facing another internal conflict as well as dealing with joint Allied and Wehrmacht forces in Europe.

As for quality of one group of POWS over another, its sort of a moot point as the Allies would control the air, and thus any attempt at relieving trapped Soviets in Europe, would be quite out of the question.

BTW, the Afrika Korps was a fine collection of divisions led by one of Germany's more able commanders, and had they, along with the over strength garrisons of Norway, Italy, and France been used against the Red Army, I doubt the USSR would have survived long enough to have gotten into trouble in out scenario.
December 19th, 2004  
Darcia
 
The Germans in 1945 weren't the Germans in 1939. By 1945 all f the germans were in trouble and they could not keep a good force up.
December 19th, 2004  
lght1
 
Hi

The Germans that were in Allied captivity were quite capable at providing assistance in the task at hand.
December 20th, 2004  
Darcia
 
Germany as a nation where bombed and startved, they wouldn't prove much help to the allies since they had also lost most of thier labor when the Camps where freed.
December 21st, 2004  
lght1
 
Hi

We wouldnt be needing the productive powers of the Ruhr, as the USA was the mightiest industrial power the world had ever seen.

The POW's were not starved, and would be properly motivated in helping to deal Soviet forces a deathblow.