USS Liberty - Israel's "War of Self Defense" - Page 8




 
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June 11th, 2009  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
This answer also has a flaw that I haven't explored because it starts to move more toward conspiracy theory and I hate conspiracies, but the flaw is this.

Why didn't the 6th Fleet respond to the attack?
Yes, this is part, and only a small part of the very weirdness which leads my thinking back towards the theory I have espoused all along. An attempt at framing the Egyptians and gaining more support from the US.

Whatever the real reason there are still many unanswered questions on both sides. Politics and diplomacy sometimes leads to strange bedfellows, often, for even stranger reasons.
June 11th, 2009  
Chukpike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
This answer also has a flaw that I haven't explored because it starts to move more toward conspiracy theory and I hate conspiracies, but the flaw is this.

Why didn't the 6th Fleet respond to the attack?
And what response could the US make? By the time the US could respond they knew the attack came from Israel. Obviously with two carriers in the Med near Crete they could have eliminated the Israeli Air Force and Navy, but would that have served US interests?

Both the US and Israel decided that it was a accident. They are sticking to it and have closed the book on it. The crew says it wasn't and they are sticking to that.

If you believe either government you might look at what the US Navy classified the ship as, a "technical research vessel". (Operated for the NSA). If you believe this I happen to have a bridge in New York I might sell you.

The answer is no one can prove anything now. One thing that makes it look like a cover-up is the speed in which both countries investigated and found no fault.
June 11th, 2009  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Yes, this is part, and only a small part of the very weirdness which leads my thinking back towards the theory I have espoused all along. An attempt at framing the Egyptians and gaining more support from the US.

Whatever the real reason there are still many unanswered questions on both sides. Politics and diplomacy sometimes leads to strange bedfellows, often, for even stranger reasons.
But that assumes that the US government was party to the plan from the start and as I have said previously I do not like conspiracies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukpike
And what response could the US make? By the time the US could respond they knew the attack came from Israel. Obviously with two carriers in the Med near Crete they could have eliminated the Israeli Air Force and Navy, but would that have served US interests?
Clearly the crew of the Liberty felt that help was less than 15 minutes away so what response would you take to rescue your own countrymen over that short a distance?
I would also suggest that the 6th Fleet would not have had information to say that the attack was an "accident" especially when it was a coordinated air/sea attack that lasted around 2 hours.

I hardly imagine that the Israeli government rapidly rang the Whitehouse to say "hey we just accidentally attacked one of your ships so we are just going to go ahead and sink it along with the crew. Don't bother sending any assistance as it is just a mistake."
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June 11th, 2009  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
But that assumes that the US government was party to the plan from the start and as I have said previously I do not like conspiracies.
Not necessarily, the outcome could have been arranged very quickly after this all went pear shaped.

As for the US government being complicit in a cover up afterwards, I have no difficulty in believing that whatsoever. Plenty of governments, including that of Australia, have been willing to overlook the deaths of their servicemen to achieve the outcome that they desired. As they say, "In the interests of National security" or "In the interests of the greater good".

As for the Sixth Fleet not reacting immediately, I feel that they were there although not on a war footing nor expecting or prepared for this action especially when it became known that it was initiated by their supposed Allies. This would have led to an initial belief that it was a Blue on Blue error, and by the time that it became apparent that it was more than that the delays had resulted in a state of ultimate confusion between all sides. One does not normally expect to be turned upon, by one's allies. At the same time no doubt the government would have been in touch with the Israelis and because of this the sixth fleet were kept waiting for orders while the US/Israeli negotiations were going on, as everyone still would have been thinking this was some sort of mistake.

Even once orders would have been issued, it is surprising how long it takes to bring a ship to war readiness and mount a retaliatory attack. Everything would have had to be checked and rechecked in an attempt not to further cause a massive f*ckup. This would have given time for a "diplomatic" solution to have been reached.

Confusion would have been the order of the day.
June 11th, 2009  
Chukpike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Even once orders would have been issued, it is surprising how long it takes to bring a ship to war readiness and mount a retaliatory attack.

Confusion would have been the order of the day.
US ships underway, take under 3 minutes.

With no confusion.
June 11th, 2009  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukpike
US ships underway, take under 3 minutes.

With no confusion.
I'm not talking about closing up to defensive Action Stations at Deck level, I'm talking about planning and mounting a retaliatory air raid, against a force of unknown size, previously thought to be an Ally, from normal Steaming stations. I think you'll find your three minutes would go right out the window.
June 11th, 2009  
MontyB
 
 
If indeed they were within 15-20 minutes of a warzone you would expect that they would at much higher level of readiness and have contingencies in place.
June 11th, 2009  
senojekips
 
 
We used to sail through the Sunda Straits on the Sydney, a clapped out old aircraft carrier full of troops and equipment on the way to Vietnam at the height of the Indonesian confrontation at condition 2 Yankee. Basically peacetime steaming with the added precaution of having main watertight doors below the waterline lightly clipped, ready use ammo available and gun crews working near their stations.

I strongly doubt that they would have had their aircraft all fuelled and bombed up on deck, and flightdeck crew at flying stations. I dunno about the yanks, but we don't store aircraft in the hangers fueled up, weapons have to be got up from the bomb rooms and magazines, armed and loaded onto the auircraft once they are on deck, Not to mention gettig up a plan of attack and breifing the crews etc., there's lots to do.
July 2nd, 2009  
Tac1
 
Top US officials told the Israeli's to attack the USS Liberty so that they could blame the attack on Syria and have an excuse to enter the Arab-Israeli war. Since Americans typically will only support a war unless we're attacked in some way, so that was the plan. Unfortunately for them that plan was foiled when a Russian ship, I believe a sub, spotted the entire incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRZSzdQuOqM

President Johnson - "I want that ship going down"

Doesn't get much more clearer than that.
July 2nd, 2009  
senojekips
 
 
^^^"Cue the theme from the X Files and don your tinfoil hats boys and girls"^^^