USAF Eliminates Good Conduct Medal - Page 2




 
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March 2nd, 2006  
Duty Honor Country
 
 
I think thats a bunch of crock. It seems the Air Force is full of themselves by saying that everyone adhears to "good conduct."

However, I have seen bad soldiers get the GCM when they did not deserve it one bit.
March 2nd, 2006  
PJ24
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doody
I think thats a bunch of crock. It seems the Air Force is full of themselves by saying that everyone adhears to "good conduct."

However, I have seen bad soldiers get the GCM when they did not deserve it one bit.
It is as far as the AF is concerned, but we are getting a new shiny staff badge.

Either way, I don't see a reason to give "feel good" ribbons and awards anyway, so regardless of how much bunk the excuse is, I don't see it as a bad thing. I would really like for the military to get away from this award craziness.

What I don't get is why this one and not the basic training ribbon. Oh well.
March 9th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 

Topic: I said bunk before - I still say bunk......


Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
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Either way, I don't see a reason to give "feel good" ribbons and awards anyway, ........................................
I agree about the 'feel good' awards ... what I disagree with is assuming all Soldiers / Sailors / Airmen / Marines being presumed to be on their good behavior because of the wearing of their uniforms ("In today’s Air Force, our Airmen understand that the uniform they wear represents good conduct”) ... your statement ... "What a bunch of bunk" (my statement).

GCMs are ONLY ONE of the yardsticks used to measure the character of our military members. You may call it a feel good medal ... however ... for more years than you have been around, most military members have been very proud to wear their GCMs (your truly included). If you ask most active duty personnel their opinion, I am quite sure that those that feel as you do are in a very very very small minority.

SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL YOU A KOOK ... I DO NOT ... I JUST THINK YOU ARE WRONG.
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March 9th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
I agree about the 'feel good' awards ... what I disagree with is assuming all Soldiers / Sailors / Airmen / Marines being presumed to be on their good behavior because of the wearing of their uniforms ("In today’s Air Force, our Airmen understand that the uniform they wear represents good conduct”) ... your statement ... "What a bunch of bunk" (my statement).

GCMs are ONLY ONE of the yardsticks used to measure the character of our military members. You may call it a feel good medal ... however ... for more years than you have been around, most military members have been very proud to wear their GCMs (your truly included). If you ask most active duty personnel their opinion, I am quite sure that those that feel as you do are in a very very very small minority.

SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL YOU A KOOK ... I DO NOT ... I JUST THINK YOU ARE WRONG.
Have to agree with Chief. There are many military personnel that can not be awarded this ribbon because of punitive punishments. Meaning they have been caught in the act and been NJPd, Courts Martialed, etc.

Just because you wear the same uniform does not automatically make you have the same morals, values and conduct as the next person.

I am proud to say that I have never been in any real trouble and have recieved only 2 written negative counselings in the almost 4 years I have been in the Marine Corps. One was on being late and the other was for. . I have forgotten, both were within the first 6 months of when I first got to Camp Lejeune. My point is that there are those that SHOULD be recognized for their good conduct.

Maybe they should make a reverse medal: Bad Conduct Medal. This way one doesn't have to dive into an SRB to see how that servicemember has conducted themselves.

Have to agree with PJ, the bootcamp ribbon you get for completing bootcamp is a bit overboard. You are in the service and wearing the uniform right?
March 9th, 2006  
DTop
 
 
I won't speak for the other services but the Army (according to reg. 600-8-22) doesn't award the GCM just because a soldier stays out of trouble. It's intended to be selectively awarded. The GCM has always been something that soldiers have taken pride in earning and it has set them apart from those not wearing it.
Here is a excerpt from the Army regulation.

"The Army Good Conduct Medal (AGCM) was established by Executive Order 8809, 28 June 1941 and was amended by Executive Order 9323, 1943 and by Executive Order 10444, 10 April 1953. It is awarded for exemplary behavior, efficiency, and fidelity in active Federal military service. It is awarded on a selective basis to each soldier who distinguishes himself or herself from among his or her fellow soldiers by their exemplary conduct, efficiency, and fidelity throughout a specified period of continuous enlisted active Federal military service, as outlined in this chapter. There is no right or entitlement to the medal until the immediate commander has approved the award and the award has been announced in permanent orders."
March 9th, 2006  
Missileer
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
I personally don't see a problem with it and I never bothered to wear mine. Why should anyone get a medal for doing exactly what it is they are supposed to do to begin with?

Too much emphasis is put on chest candy in the military these days, I'm surprised to see the reactions of some on this forum in regards to that.

Let's not pretend that these ribbons haven't been given out like candy over the years, and it's not only the AF that does it. The GC ribbon has turned into a "gimme award" and has been for years now, service wide.

I think getting rid of the basic training ribbon would have been a smarter choice, hopefully that will be next.




Since when is the GC ribbon the sole determining factor in promotions? Your EPRs are far more important than a ribbon, you don't even get promo points for the GC in the AF.

Having the ribbon doesn't necessarily mean you've been on your best behavior, it just means you didn't get caught.
It may be a gimme now, but it sure wasn't in the 1960's. It also didn't matter if you glowed in your first years, the Army GCM depended on what last duty station Commander thought you deserved. On an isolated site, you sign in when you report for duty and sign out when you leave out the gate. We had to be within so many minutes away so we could sign in on time in case of a battery recall or you were restricted to the barracks for two weeks. We accounted for our whereabouts 24 hours a day. If the Platoon Sgt, who knew you pretty well, caught some one in formation without a ribbon or badge they had earned, you went to explain to the Top why you were out of uniform.

I guess things have slacked to a point of sloppiness and troops can get away with murder.
March 10th, 2006  
PJ24
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
("In today’s Air Force, our Airmen understand that the uniform they wear represents good conduct”) ... your statement ... "What a bunch of bunk" (my statement).
I hope you weren't claiming I made that statement, because if so, I challenge you to show me exactly where I said those words.

Quote:
SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL YOU A KOOK ... I DO NOT ... I JUST THINK YOU ARE WRONG.


What a lameass remark, making it bold, in all caps and underlining it won't make it any less pointless, either. Maybe I've just done better things in my life and career to be up in arms about a medal, more specifically, the GCM, if you haven't, well, I guess it sucks to be you.

Quote:
Have to agree with Chief. There are many military personnel that can not be awarded this ribbon because of punitive punishments. Meaning they have been caught in the act and been NJPd, Courts Martialed, etc.
Not necessarily a disqualifer either, I've seen quite a few on the AF and Army sides of the house awarded the GCM regardless of NJPs.

As I said before, the GCM has turned into a "gimmie" award over the years, it didn't used to be, it wasn't when I started, but now it is and it especially was in the AF. I'm all for getting rid of awards that lose their meaning and turn into chest 'fluff.' If we started handing out the CMoH like candy, I wouldn't complain to see that go either, to continue to give it out on less standards would be an insult to the men that truly had earned it.


March 10th, 2006  
DTop
 
 
OK gents, let's take things down a notch and refrain from personal criticisms.
March 10th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 

Topic: Not your words ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ24
I hope you weren't claiming I made that statement, because if so, I challenge you to show me exactly where I said those words.
I never claimed that you made this statement ... remember the 'original' post ............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix80
Allardice said that it is the uniform, not the Good Conduct Medal, that represents what airmen are all about.
“In today’s Air Force, our Airmen understand that the uniform they wear represents good conduct,” he said.
This was the area and statement I was referring to.

OK?

As far as times changing ... that is entirely possible ... the military of today is NOT the military of yesterday. I can see where the Good Conduct Medal 'might' be viewed as a 'feel good' award (but ... not by me) ... political correctness really really really sucks.
March 10th, 2006  
PJ24
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
I never claimed that you made this statement ... remember the 'original' post ............
Which is why I said "IF so."

Quote:
As far as times changing ... that is entirely possible ... the military of today is NOT the military of yesterday. I can see where the Good Conduct Medal 'might' be viewed as a 'feel good' award (but ... not by me) ... political correctness really really really sucks.
Of course times change, just look at how basic training has changed. Certain rites of passage have officially become against DoD policy to the point where the old practice of "looking the other way" isn't even a safe bet. (blood wings, tacking, shellback ceremony, etc). Thankfully, we still have creative NCOs, but what happens when the new batch of touchy, feely, PC guys get into those ranks?


Things change, that's life, but when we start turning awards and medals into "gimmies" I think it's a good time to DX them. The reason the GCM turned into a feel good award was because the standards for receiving one weren't being adhered to. See: Political Correctness, and I completely agree with you. It capital S U C K S'.

You probably earned yours, I earned mine, but tons of other guys didn't, and that is what brings the value down servicewide.

I do think that since the AF isn't going to award the GCM anymore, those that have already gotten them be not allowed to wear it. What's good for the goose and all of that jazz. Maybe if they did that, the AF would be forced to bring it back AND adhere to the requirements.