US torturing terror suspects?

Depends on the five guys? Okay let's see. How many of us have more time in service than you have in existence? We have some idea of the subject matter. Your's is only hypothosis. Until somebody shows me where the US is torturing people on any kind of an approved official SOP, all your statements are "what ifs" at best and slander at the worst.
 
Charge_7 said:
Depends on the five guys? Okay let's see. How many of us have more time in service than you have in existence? We have some idea of the subject matter. Your's is only hypothosis. Until somebody shows me where the US is torturing people on any kind of an approved official SOP, all your statements are "what ifs" at best and slander at the worst.
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Well there are reports of insurgents being interogated and abused hell even photographs.
You may have more exsperience in service but do you know everything about the military?
I am only suggesting looking at it from a diffrent angle, i dont require a degree to suggest that.
I have talked to many service men and my cousins fiancee is a marine in training and I've know him for several years.
Hell my sargent is ex army.
 
devilwasp said:
Well there are reports of insurgents being interogated and abused h**l even photographs.
You may have more exsperience in service but do you know everything about the military?
I am only suggesting looking at it from a diffrent angle, i dont require a degree to suggest that.
I have talked to many service men and my cousins fiancee is a marine in training and I've know him for several years.
h**l my sargent is ex army.
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The point is he has far more military experience than you will ever have, considering your attitude, and you would do well to approach not only Charge_7 with a great deal more respect, but the rest of the members here as well.
So you know a couple servicemen, right? How does this give any credence whatsoever to what you are claiming? And "suggesting....a diffrent angle" is fine, but you are doing so without providing a single shred of evidence to support your claims that, as Charge_7 mentioned, are highly insulting to a good part of the member base on this forum.
 
Redneck said:
The point is he has far more military experience than you will ever have, considering your attitude, and you would do well to approach not only Charge_7 with a great deal more respect, but the rest of the members here as well.
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BTW how will he have more exsperience than i will, i could serve for just as long as him.

I have not given them any disrespect, if they think so then i did not mean so.
So you know a couple servicemen, right? How does this give any credence whatsoever to what you are claiming? And "suggesting....a diffrent angle" is fine, but you are doing so without providing a single shred of evidence to support your claims that, as Charge_7 mentioned, are highly insulting to a good part of the member base on this forum.
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what have i not given evidence for?
That is disrespect and you have a right to do that but its not really fair to do that, what more do you want me to do?
What pieces of evidence do you want shown?
Ask me and i will show if not then i will take back what i said.
 
Let me say this to Mr. Wasp.

You seem to have the somewhat slanted Idea that I and other members of this board, see all persons of Middle Eastern and or Islamic orgin as terrorists.

Wrong

Several of us have actually had dealings with these people within their own countries. Not just from what we are given to read, or what interviews or segements the media decides to run or what some person in the guise of an educator decides to espouse from the safety of their podium.

You see Wasp we have actually shared or chow, our water ,our smokes and our pancho liners with these people. We know that they are not all terrorists. Why we refer to Terrorists as extermists. So your thinnley vailed accusations of racism are so much tripe meant to make yourself feel better.

Torture? You have yet nor has anyone else given any hard evidence that supports your accusations. The Prison Scandal? Fine. Those soliders were charged. And really does underwear on the head and naked pictures eqaute torture? Degradation yes.

Have ever in your tender young years actually seen the end result of torture? If you had there would be no confusion about the two.
 
You may have shared a cow or water with these people, yet you seem to classify all terror groups the same.
You said if you gave hamas money it most likely would go to harming people, that simply isnt true.
Degradation is a form of torture, just about everything can be.
If your talking about physcial or mental torture then i agree i have not seen the end results but i would not like to.
http://www.denverpost.com/cda/article/print/0,1674,36%7E11676%7E2157003,00.html

Is one case.

And one case of it happening in Guantanamo bay in cuba,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6672698/
These may be seperate incidents but frankly this does not look good.
 
News Articles and or investigations do not hard evidence make. Charges being brought on evidence discovered are what will convince me. And you apparently don't have any, and are flying by the seat of your pants or the depth of your anti US agenda as it were.

Next time I need to have how I classify people explained to me. Or I want my military expierance belittled. I will let someone know. However it wont be you Junior.
 
03USMC said:
News Articles and or investigations do not hard evidence make. Charges being brought on evidence discovered are what will convince me. And you apparently don't have any, and are flying by the seat of your pants or the depth of your anti US agenda as it were.
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Do not make hard evidence?????
Ok I'll leave this front since you seem to think the evidence i have provided is "fake" or "not real evidence".
Next time I need to have how I classify people explained to me. Or I want my military expierance belittled. I will let someone know. However it wont be you Junior.
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With all due respect SIR! I do not believe the way you classify people is right , sir! Further more, sir, would you kindly not call me , "junior" as i am not in any way a relation to you. SIR!
 
devilwasp said:
03USMC said:
News Articles and or investigations do not hard evidence make. Charges being brought on evidence discovered are what will convince me. And you apparently don't have any, and are flying by the seat of your pants or the depth of your anti US agenda as it were.
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Do not make hard evidence?????
Ok I'll leave this front since you seem to think the evidence i have provided is "fake" or "not real evidence".
Next time I need to have how I classify people explained to me. Or I want my military expierance belittled. I will let someone know. However it wont be you Junior.
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With all due respect SIR! I do not believe the way you classify people is right , sir! Further more, sir, would you kindly not call me , "junior" as i am not in any way a relation to you. SIR!
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Accusations are not evidence,circumstanial nor hard. I gather evidence and conduct investigations for a living. You show me a completed Investigation conducted by FBI, NCIS, CID. That garnered enough evidence to have charges preferred. Not Media releases.

I really could care less if you agree or disgree with how I classify Terrorists from the rest of the Middle East, Latin America or Europe. I am just not inclined to have my value system questioned by a Cadet .

Fine I won't call ya Junior. Okay Skippy.
 
i think one point that has been missed up to till now is that i doesn't actually have to be true...people just have to believe it. and right now, no body in the middle east is having a great deal of trouble believing that american troops are willing to just drag anyone away.

hearts & minds
 
03USMC said:
Accusations are not evidence,circumstanial nor hard. I gather evidence and conduct investigations for a living. You show me a completed Investigation conducted by FBI, NCIS, CID. That garnered enough evidence to have charges preferred. Not Media releases.
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Is a memo from people inside the FBI not evidence enough?
I really could care less if you agree or disgree with how I classify Terrorists from the rest of the Middle East, Latin America or Europe. I am just not inclined to have my value system questioned by a Cadet .

Fine I won't call ya Junior. Okay Skippy.
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You may not be inclined to, sir, but you are being questioned.
Whether you like it or not.
Sir with all due respect sir , i dont like the use of the name skippy since i am not bounceing and certanly not an australian kangeroo in an area cursed with holes,mines,caves and anything you can fall in.
 
No a memo is not an investigation. The bulk of that article seems to consist of methods of interogation that SA Harrington did not agree with.
 
03USMC said:
No a memo is not an investigation. The bulk of that article seems to consist of methods of interogation that SA Harrington did not agree with.
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Yeah and you dont think that she witnessed is not proof enough?
 
Everything you see leads to Americans torturing terrorist suspects even if they are innocent.

People that are captured by "terrorists" after they come out say they are always treated well. Many documentaries have seen this.
 
Still, at least 10 incidents of abuse have been substantiated at Guantanamo, all but one from 2003 or this year. They range from a guard’s hitting a detainee to a female interrogator’s climbing on a prisoner’s lap.
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Okay, so this is what the artilce says for "alleged abuses" at Guantomino Bay. You're equating these (which have not actually even been proven to be true BTW) to torture? Doing things of that sort is probably wrong, but how is it torture??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but torture is supposed to involve systematic physical and psychological abuse calculated to extract information and/or cooperation. No evidence of that happening has been demonstrated.

Those incidents pale in comparison to alleged abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, a scandal that erupted when photographs surfaced of U.S. troops forcing Iraqi prisoners to strip and pose in sexually humiliating positions. Some prisoners were bound and hooded.
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Those occurances were bad. They made the military look bad. I do not believe that they were torture, but even if they are we are talking about some very benign methods. Nothing in the department of excruciatingly painful physical torment. Nothing even close to it.

The article reports that certain individuals at the FBI are suspicious. That is their perogative to be suspicious, but it proves nothing. And we do not know if what this FBI fellow has said is legit or just calculated to create hype.

So no, that's not very good evidence of torture if you ask me.
 
"Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, a scandal that erupted when photographs surfaced of U.S. troops forcing Iraqi prisoners to strip and pose in sexually humiliating positions."

Actually it "erupted" when Specialist Joseph Darby who was serving at the prison couldn't allow the actions of the rogues to continue and turned them in. The system works. Honorable people act honorably and dishonorable ones get caught.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/PersonOfWeek/story?id=365920&page=1
 
maybe whats needed is an impartial, all access investigetion to proove to the world that it isn't happening (or is, whatever)

a country such as NZ, Spain etc
 
chewie_nz said:
maybe whats needed is an impartial, all access investigetion to proove to the world that it isn't happening (or is, whatever)

a country such as NZ, Spain etc
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Perhaps, but unfortunately, every nation out there has its own agenda ... so "impartial" probably doesn't exist. Even obvious choices might have have hidden agendas and goals.
 
well that's true...as i was typing that i was trying to think of countries that would be acceptable to both sides....and i came up with two!
 
So what! War is war. Who can say that their interrogations havnt got out of hand at some point?
Torture is a tool of war.Always has been.Always will be.
 
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