US & Syria getting closer?

[Partisan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7896522.stm

So Kerry has visited Syria & seems up beat - do you think he went at Pres Obama's behest or he's doing some politicking on his own?

I'd be interested to find out how much Syria are interested in this and why they would be willing to hive themselves off from the principal Arab power in the Middle East - Iran! More importantly, will this impact Hamas & Hezbollah, or will Syria continue to say that they are outside the equation?

 

[mmarsh]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7896522.stm

So Kerry has visited Syria & seems up beat - do you think he went at Pres Obama's behest or he's doing some politicking on his own?

I'd be interested to find out how much Syria are interested in this and why they would be willing to hive themselves off from the principal Arab power in the Middle East - Iran! More importantly, will this impact Hamas & Hezbollah, or will Syria continue to say that they are outside the equation?

Syria and the US used to be allies. The Syrians got along with Bush Senior and even joined the war against Saddam Hussein in 1991. Then Junior showed up with his "Axis of evil" sabre rattling and that alliance went to hell.

Both maybe Obama can rebuild what Bush Sr was able to do.

 

[Duty Honor Country]

The visit is a step toward a closer US Syrian relationship but it is just one step

 

[Partisan]

Syria and the US used to be allies. The Syrians got along with Bush Senior and even joined the war against Saddam Hussein in 1991. Then Junior showed up with his "Axis of evil" sabre rattling and that alliance went to hell.

Both maybe Obama can rebuild what Bush Sr was able to do.

True, I actually was looked after by some Syrians for a few hours, friendly people, even if we had no common language.

I hope that it does bring the 2 closer together, although as D,H,C says, this only the first step - but at least it is a step.

I wonder how Iran will react to this and what they're going to do about the US trying to drive a wedge between them & Syria.

 

[SHERMAN]

True, I actually was looked after by some Syrians for a few hours, friendly people, even if we had no common language.

All people are generally friendly. The problem is that their President is friendly, with Iran. And Hezballah.

 

[mmarsh]

All people are generally friendly. The problem is that their President is friendly, with Iran. And Hezballah.

That's somewhat to be expected to a degree as they are both Shiite Muslim countries in a vast sea of Sunni Muslims. But what got them even closer than usual was the foreign policy bulling of the past Administration. If however the US tries holding out an Olive branch instead of a fist, I am certain Syria would reciprocate as its is neither in Syria's nor the US's interest to remain hostile to each other. Syria needs the economic ties, the US needs more Muslim friends in the ME, there is mutual gain in a alliance.

 

[SHERMAN]

That's somewhat to be expected to a degree as they are both Shiite Muslim countries in a vast sea of Sunni Muslims.

Syria is not shiite. Syrias poulation is more than 85% suni with a very small Alwai minority, which rules the majority with an iron fist. Alawi is not real shiite, although it dose bare some resemblence to it(and to christianety and paganisem for that matter)

 

[Partisan]

All people are generally friendly. The problem is that their President is friendly, with Iran. And Hezballah.

I would ask has Assad truly been given other viable options? He came to power after the Gulf War, just before GWB. Since then he's been pretty much marginalised by the West, leaving him open to suasion from Iran. Since he gains a powerful ally and has Hamas & Hezbollah on call to help him with his "non-attributable" activities, there is no down side for him or Syria. If the West actually engages and seriously tries to forge stronger ties to Syria, it can only help all concerned, except Iran, Hamas & Hezbollah, although those hangovers will take some time to shake off, but it's worth a try!

I checked up on Alwai, in Wikipedia, here's what it has to say

"The sect seems to have been organised by a follower of Muḥammad ibn Nuṣayr known as al-Khasibi, who died in Aleppo in about 969......
... Then, in 1974, Imam Musa Sadr, leader of the Twelver Shi'ites of Lebanon and founder of the Amal Movement, proclaimed that '‘Alawīs are the brothers of the Shi'ites.[10] Under the dictatorial but secular Assad regime, religious minorities were tolerated, political dissent was not".

I'm not too sure how much water this holds with Shi'ites but I'm sure that there is something that ties them together. Also his wife is a Sunni, so that must make for fun family meals, or at least show that he's not a raving lunatic, just a man who enjoys his power - and he ain't the only one in this world.

 

[mmarsh]

Syria is not shiite. Syrias poulation is more than 85% suni with a very small Alwai minority, which rules the majority with an iron fist. Alawi is not real shiite, although it dose bare some resemblence to it(and to christianety and paganisem for that matter)

I double checked and I stand corrected. Syria is indeed mostly Sunni.

 

[SHERMAN]

or at least show that he's not a raving lunatic, just a man who enjoys his power - and he ain't the only one in this world

No, I never said that he is a raving lunatic. The Baath party rules with an iron fist and stable hands. This is not a theocracy, its a secular one-party regiem.

 

[Partisan]

No, I never said that he is a raving lunatic. The Baath party rules with an iron fist and stable hands. This is not a theocracy, its a secular one-party regiem.

So if it Syria is not a theocracy, why are we talking about religion, in the context of the West (USA), making overtures to them?

Rather than "fighting the white", I think that all of us need to accept that there are people that disagree with us, our views and beliefs, but there is always common ground - we just need to take the time to find it.

This does not mean rolling over to threats, but it does mean trying to build bridges wherever possible, using military force as the last resort, no the immediate option.

 

[Komnen]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7896522.stm

So Kerry has visited Syria & seems up beat - do you think he went at Pres Obama's behest or he's doing some politicking on his own?

I'd be interested to find out how much Syria are interested in this and why they would be willing to hive themselves off from the principal Arab power in the Middle East - Iran! More importantly, will this impact Hamas & Hezbollah, or will Syria continue to say that they are outside the equation?

Iran is not Arab

Syria is not shiite. Syrias poulation is more than 85% suni with a very small Alwai minority, which rules the majority with an iron fist. Alawi is not real shiite, although it dose bare some resemblence to it(and to christianety and paganisem for that matter)

No. Syria's Population is about 86-88% muslim, (12-14% are christian), and these 86% muslim include about 12% alawite (heavily concentrated in coastal Latakia region), and probably a little bit more than that of 12-imam shia, as well as some ismailites, druzes etc. And the shia and christian minorities are quite content of current regime, as well as many sunni, because, just like in Iraq, the alternative would be sunni fundamentalism, despite all those petty socialist, communist and some nationalist parties existing there.

 

[Komnen]

No, I never said that he is a raving lunatic. The Baath party rules with an iron fist and stable hands. This is not a theocracy, its a secular one-party regiem.

It's not quite one-party. There are quite some parties, many very old, but Al-Ba'ath managed to lure sedition in most of them, and indeed most of them have split in two, one part being in opposition, and another one being in alliance with Al-Ba'ath. The record belongs to the Movement of Syrian Socialists I believe, which was once the strongest party in Syria, and now is split in 4; 2 of the MSS support Al-Ba'ath, and 2 of them are in opposition... Al-Ba'ath and these satelite parties form National Front, which is ruling Syria. Of course, they are not even allies, and until recently (a couple of years ago, that is) for example none parties but Al-Ba'ath were allowed to have youth organisations or bureaus in the provinces. During the 2000s, the regime has much softened, the parties have more political freedoms, etc, but the opposition is completely divided, weak, and lacks any true support.

When it comes to 1991:
What some people may not be aware of is that while Al-Ba'ath ruled both Syria and Iraq, these were opposing fractions that, while having the same name, grew apart and became distinct. Syria never liked Saddam, for that reason, for being proxy of USA until Gulf War and for other reasons. There was no alliance between USA and Syria until Bush: Syria was always a staunch ally of USSR. But it didn't mind Saddam crushed, especially since the international community was against him.