US Submarines vs the German U-Boat. Who made the better Sub?

mmarsh

mmarsh

Active member
I just started playing Silent Hunter III (excellent sub sim for anyone who likes sims) and I got to be thinking. The were two major sub forces the Germans and the Americans. If we exclude things like the XXI and XXIII boats (as they never made it to combat). Each side had some nifty gadgets such as pattern running torpedoes for the Germans and a Superior Surface Rader for the Yanks.

Which was the more effective boat and why?


To Moderator

This is one of these gray area subjects I wasnt sure where to put it if you want to move it can you please PM me?
 
The American Submarines were larger and better designed. The American subs were designed for long patrols in the Pacific and had air conditioners and a primitive fire control system and the only thing that let them down for years were their torpedo's. The German submarine had been based on earlier designs and were for much shorter journeys into the Atlantic. Also on the German subs the crew conditions were far worse than the American subs. Later German designs where greatly improved but by then it was to late to have any affect on the war.
 
That is a tough one actually. The American torpedo at the beginning of the war was so terrible it's difficult to assess for me. It's like having a great gun whose bullet bounces off the target 1/2 the time.
 
Im really having a hard time deciding. LeeEnfield had some good points but I will make a few remarks both ways...

First, The German had the same problems with the magnetic pistol detonators of their torpedos as the Americans, Resulting in a number of duds. However the Germans were faster to fix these problems. Secondly the Germans invented pattern running (best against convoys) and the first acoustic torpedo (a ASW ship killer). On the other hand America Subs had more torpedo tubes and carried more fish (Germans called them eels).

German boats could dive deeper than their American counterparts, but use boats were faster both on the surface and underwater. I also am not quite ready to surrender the range arguement, the IX/40 class could patrol into the Indian Ocean, thats a long way from Europe. Even if true its a moot point as the germans didnt need very long range Subs.

The germans had fire Control too (called a TDC) although it was not as sophiticated as the US version. The real advantage the US Navy had was its surface rader, the Germans got one too but later and there were not as reliable. German subs were better gun-armed both against surface and AAA.

AHHH I still cannot decide...
 
mmarsh......The reason that the Germans achieved this range was due to the use of Milch cows. These were large submarine tenders that could meet up the German Sub on patrol and refuel and rearm it. The Allies got most of these in 1943 due to them breaking the ultra Codes
 
Well I believe you have to include the type XXI in order to determine who built the best boats, because with a lot of German projects had hitler not touched many of they would have gone into production as planned. At the end the Germans built better subs, the first actual real subs. The type XXI for example was a nice boat in general, you could compare it to something today I guess. Had the boat gone into production years earlier we'd have a serious problem with germany actually being a thousand year reich.
 
Sea_Cadet said:
Well I believe you have to include the type XXI in order to determine who built the best boats, because with a lot of German projects had hitler not touched many of they would have gone into production as planned. At the end the Germans built better subs, the first actual real subs. The type XXI for example was a nice boat in general, you could compare it to something today I guess. Had the boat gone into production years earlier we'd have a serious problem with germany actually being a thousand year reich.
Click to expand...

Yeah well, coulda shoulda woulda right? Let's stick to evaluating the major REAL subs each side had.
 
hmmmm...

Almost 90% of German Submariners never came back home thanks to Allied (US, Canada, Britain) efforts to sink them. :)
 
phoenix_aim54

USN losses were also bad. 152 US Subs never returned. Germanys high losses was not due a failure of the Kreigmarine, but of the steady Allied advances in ASW, which eventually out paced German U-boat technology.
The Japanese on the other hand were far behind in ASW warfare.
I decided to leave off the XXI and XXIII as they never reached operational status. Just like the P-80 shooting star never reached the European Air War in time. Had the war gone on a few more months, then yes, you probably could include them.

LeeEnfield

The Milch Cows (Type XIV and some early Type VII) only refueled the earlier boats such as the type VII B/C/D2 as well as the IXB/C. The type IX/40 was a specially designed Long range with extra saddle tanks that could reach the Indian Ocean without resupply. Fortunatly only 87 were built, and most were sunk.
 
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