US Special Forces Operations

mmarsh

Active member
For the truly ignorant amongst us (meaning myself :smile:), I had a question concerning SOG operations and how specific units are picked for specific missions.

For example, take the recent eradication of Osama bin Laden who was killed by SEAL Team Six.

Why were the SEALS selected for this OP? It seems like a bizarre choice given that the SEALS are part of the Navy and the area where bin Laden was killed wasn't anywhere near a body of water. We know that they were flown into Pakistan by Helicopter, so it wasn't an amphibious insertion.

Why not use Green Berets, Army Rangers, or the US primary anti-Terrorist unit the Delta Force? I know the decision to maintain secrecy eliminated Special Forces from other countries like the British SAS.
 
They use whatever SMU is closest and able to perform the task under the JSOC umbrella.

DEVGRU are CT specialists just like the doorkickers of SFOD-D.
Sea is only ONE means of incursion.

Other then that I´ll let someone from the US answer these questions as I am alittle unsure of what is publicly known about the formation and set up of these SMU,s.


KJ sends..
 
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Thank you KJ. This question had me wondering as well, and your answer seems logical (now that you have pointed it out)
 
They use whatever SMU is closest and able to perform the task under the JSOC umbrella.

DEVGRU are CT specialists just like the doorkickers of SFOD-D.
Sea is only ONE means of incurson.

Other then that I´ll let someone from the US answer these questions as I am alittle unsure of what is publicly known about the formation and set up of these SMU,s.


KJ sends..

Good answer KJ.

A little translation for those not familiar with military terminology.

SMU = Special Mission Units

JSOC = Joint Special Operations Command

DEVGRU = Naval Special Warfare Development Group (Usually abbreviated DEVGRU)

CT = Counter Terrorist

SFOD-D = Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta
 
SEAL...SEa, Air, Land.

Seals can do their missions regardless of terrain or location. Seal team six was formed around the same time as detachment delta to be used as a tier one counter terrorism asset.

SOG groups are now broken down into tiers. Tier 2 is units like SEALs, US Army Special Forces, and the Ranger Bats. For a mission to kill or capture bin laden, this would be reserved for a tier one unit. In the US that is DEVGRU (used to be Seal team 6) or SFOD-D(Delta Force). Either one of them could have performed the mission, it likely came down to who was available at the time.

Devgru, Delta, UK/AU/NZ SAS, GSG-9, etc all cross train with each other. They are the elite of the elite. The relationship between the AU/UK SAS and US SOG has really gotten a lot closer since the GWOT started. All of these guys have been working together closely for the last 10 years tracking down these HVTs. Really, it could have been anyone.
 
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SOG groups are now broken down into tiers. Tier 2 is units like SEALs, US Army Special Forces, and the Ranger Bats. For a mission to kill or capture bin laden, this would be reserved for a tier one unit. In the US that is DEVGRU (used to be Seal team 6) or SFOD-D(Delta Force). Either one of them could have performed the mission, it likely came down to who was available at the time.

Devgru, Delta, UK/AU/NZ SAS, GSG-9, etc all cross train with each other. They are the elite of the elite. The relationship between the AU/UK SAS and US SOG has really gotten a lot closer since the GWOT started. All of these guys have been working together closely for the last 10 years tracking down these HVTs. Really, it could have been anyone.

Ok, you are a US service member and opened the door on this discussion so I assume it is fair game.
The Tier system has been blurred on several occations with the colorcoding of units.(Esp with regards to the DA Teams in USSF organized into SMU,s.)
This to the point that I doubt it is still in use today.
Old time Tier two units were also AF PJ,s and CCT Teams and RRD from the Ranger Reg´t were also classified as a Tier 2 unit.

Your list of allied SOF/SF/SOG is also alittle incomplete and/or faulty.
One example, in The Stan germany sent down KSK who sat in their compound working on their tan for 15 months because of VERY strict ROE,s imposed on them by their goverment.
Where alot smaller players in the international arena has been pulling more of the weight then usual.
One such example are Jaegerkorpset from Denmark that has proven their usefulness over and over in the rough mountainous terrain of eastern AFG.
TF K-Bar out of "TG Ferret" launched out of Kandahar.



mmarsh:
" I know the decision to maintain secrecy eliminated Special Forces from other countries like the British SAS."

Can you elaborate on this please?
How do you KNOW this?
In fact HAD twentytwo been available at the time the decision not to use them would have been a purely political one and would have NOTHING to do with OPSEC.
Infact 22 found Uday and Kusay, wanted to go in and grab them but were turned down by the american Command and Control.
The rest of that story all of us know since it were televised and included TOW missiles and gunships..A tad overkill for two guys if you ask most in the community.
But I guess it made good TV.


Edit to add:
The SMU definatly launched out of AFGH, as it turns out from exactly the same base that was the Swedish home during OP Snövind. (Operation Snowwind) back in 2002 and I for one will be very interested to hear the Pakistani and US officials explain the sat dishes (not directed at TV satelites) clearly visable on the raided house on pictures since according to officials from both nations the compound had no communications equipment..
The 4 meter wide dish is directed at aprox 12 degrees west...We all know what that means..

KJ sends...
 
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The list was incomplete because I was trying to civilianize it a bit. The listed units are the most recognizable within the US arsenal. As for the international list....I put etc on there so I wouldn't be here for hours listing every single SOF unit in the West. We can talk about the nuances and differences in the different Tiers/color SOf units...but to a civilian it would just be a bunch of gibberish and acronyms. I understand that several NATO members have dedicated special operations units that are contributing to the GWOT...once again, speaking in generic terms, describing all the different contributions would be lengthy and confusing to the average civilian.
 
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Ok good deal, I now understand your reasoning behind it.

From the start the colorcoding were classified information so that´s why I didn´t want to speak out of my place.
Even today it is rarely talked about and I am as I said alittle unclear on what is open information.

The NATO jab wasn´t ment as personal criticism as much as my feeling of, credit where credit,s due.

At any rate, one more win for the community.


KJ sends..
 
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KJ

According to the media (assuming THEY are reliable), the US State Department stated they made the decision not to share the Obama intelligence with its closet Allies such as Canada, the UK, Pakistan etc for fear of security leaks. I simply assumed that since these countries were not in the know about this operation their military units would not be available.

I am/was not aware that JSOC could use the military assets (like the SAS) of other nations without their knowledge or consent, but I readily admit that since I am no authority on this and could very likely be mistaken. But if that is the case, what then is to prevent misuse? It seems strange that the US could use SAS, French Paras, or any other foreign SMU in Afghanistan without that nations prior knowledge.

Perhaps someone enlighten me?

PS, Thank you and Brinktk for answering my question.
 
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It doesn't happen that way...A lot of times international SOF teams work together, and if they do, there is joint command. Maybe an American OIC and a British 2IC, or vice versa depending on the country and the mission. This prevents what you talk about and it also makes the operations much smoother...Also, they have exchange programs between allied SOF soldiers all the time. That's where Charles Beckwith came up with his model for Delta force...from his time serving with the British SAS in an exchange program from US special forces. The soldiers government WOULD have knowledge and consent though...you better believe that no country is going to write a blank check on some of their best soldiers to another government no matter who they are.
 
As the man above me said..Doesn´t work that way.

The units attached to a certain SMU is basically "on loan".
What that means is, the goverment of said nation says..We have been authorized to place this unit under the joint command of this SMU.

The goverment will NOT have to be adviced of every mission the SMU partakes in.

An example that is not current and semi open by now.
The Swedish goverment placed a swedish SMU under French command during Operation ARTEMIS.
The one watching out for Swedish interests in that case is the unit commander that will ok or blacklist the missions there and then on the ground.
The goverment sent the SMU, the French general on the ground called the missions (in close cooperation with the swedish SMU commander).

The goverment got outraged when uncomfortable information started to leak from that mission.
Although the mission in and of it´s own was a resounding success the unit CO were fiered and the world kept turning.

Welcome to the battlelines between military command structure and civilian poll number searching..

KJ sends..
 
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SEAL's in Pakistan

Don't forget, SEAL stands for Sea, Air And Land, not just at sea.
They probably were the closest force available, or it was their turn in that particular theatre.
There is also a possibility that other SF groups couldn't find Pakistan on a map of South America. ;) (Pse do not take this seriously)
I just heard that Pres. Obama awarded the force involved a Presidential Unit Citation, which I can't believe because the whole idea behind Special Forces is to remain anonymous. So when will the citation be worn?
 
Special Operations Forces participate in parades just like everyone else. Might not be as often, but it does happen. More than once have I seen members of Canada's JTF2 or CSOR on parade...and with tan berets, they're pretty easy to spot in a sea of green (or in my case...blue)
 
Uhmm I reckon JTF might not have protected identities like most of the worlds Special Forces units?
Are you allowed to take pictures of the parades as well?
I hope we never see the day when PERSEC becomes an issue over this, because that would mean the opposition had learnt to use the uhmmm uhmm internet?
Persons of interest would include some of the sniper Teams who has done one or more rotations in The Stan..

Sounds like a strange way to conduct business, but to each their own I guess?
Alot of questionmarks in that post but I am still trying to wrap my head around this ****..haha

KJ sends..
 
Uhmm I reckon JTF might not have protected identities like most of the worlds Special Forces units?
Are you allowed to take pictures of the parades as well?
I hope we never see the day when PERSEC becomes an issue over this, because that would mean the opposition had learnt to use the uhmmm uhmm internet?
Persons of interest would include some of the sniper Teams who has done one or more rotations in The Stan..

Sounds like a strange way to conduct business, but to each their own I guess?
Alot of questionmarks in that post but I am still trying to wrap my head around this ****..haha

KJ sends..

JTF2 is Canada's version of a Tier One SOF, and until recently, it wasn't even well known that they existed. As far as protected identities go...I'd say it's up there with everyone else at that level.

Unless they parade in a building with nobody watching, there's bound to be pictures. Nobody's going to stop someone from taking pictures of a parade, but they might get talked to later on about facial blurring, or something along those lines. I really can't speak a whole lot on that subject, as I'm usually one of the troops on parade. Since I'm not an operator with JTF2 or CSOR, I'm more basing all this one what I have seen in my years of service.
 
JTF2 is Canada's version of a Tier One SOF, and until recently, it wasn't even well known that they existed. As far as protected identities go...I'd say it's up there with everyone else at that level.

Unless they parade in a building with nobody watching, there's bound to be pictures. Nobody's going to stop someone from taking pictures of a parade, but they might get talked to later on about facial blurring, or something along those lines. I really can't speak a whole lot on that subject, as I'm usually one of the troops on parade. Since I'm not an operator with JTF2 or CSOR, I'm more basing all this one what I have seen in my years of service.

Yes I know very well what JTF2 is and what they do.
That wasn´t really the question asked.

As for the protected identities thing.
No, they are not at the same level as most.
Most Tier 1 assets does not "parade".
That is because once a picture has been taken the cat is pretty much out of the bag.
You can control a few pictures, but during a parade the pictures taken could pose a real security threat as you don´t know by who and for what purpose the pictures have been taken..
Sure the good guys probably won´t publish them without pixled faces, but then again it´s not the good guys we are worried about is it?
Unless it is the media, they seem hellbent on endangering people..

You should ask them mean doorkickers sometime when you meet up for a parade and let us know what they have to say about it? :wink:

KJ sends..
 
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You should ask them mean doorkickers sometime when you meet up for a parade and let us know what they have to say about it? :wink:

Sure, I'll get right on that.

Could my last statement have been right out in left field? Quit possibly. I'm only talking from my relatively limited 7 years of experience. Might the troops on parade been members of CSOR or 427 SOAS? Absolutely...the tan beret is worn all across CANSOFCOM.

On that note, since I'm not well versed in SOF operations, I'll resume my place in the background. Spammers beware.
 
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