US soldier kills Afghan civilians in Kandahar

Big_Z said:
I could see the implications of this being very bad for future US operations, possibly catastrophic on the hearts and minds front. I think a stray JDAM hitting the center of the city would have blown over far smoother than this will.
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I see the Taliban using this as a sell point of finding futurless young males to join their ranks throughout the region.
 
That Taliban are going to make a national holiday for this guy...... His timing was impeccable, it almost makes you wonder.
 
Big_Z said:
I could see the implications of this being very bad for future US operations, possibly catastrophic on the hearts and minds front. I think a stray JDAM hitting the center of the city would have blown over far smoother than this will.
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Unfortunately I think that you are right in your assumption.

Although I might be seen to be a person who never lets a chance go by to have a shot at US justice, I do see this case as worthy of very close scrutiny.

In my mind there are but two possible outcomes. Either he is a cold blooded premeditated killer and should receive the death sentence, or he is actually suffering a mental breakdown of some sort. At the moment I feel that the latter is far more likely.

The worst thing that could possibly happen is for those responsible for the investigation, to be seen to try and cover it up or pass an unreasonably light sentence should he appear guilty. By the same token the case must be investigated openly and if found necessary he must given every chance to a fair trial.
 
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The event you have in mind and this one are completely different in every aspect.
 
VDKMS said:
Let rule of law do its job, openly.
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It depends on what YOU mean by rule of law.

Is it civilian or is it military???

If it is civilian, (depending on whether it is American or foreign .. on whether they have a death penalty) - on whether it is military and they are willing to try this individual as a combatant soldier ... will (in MY opinion), determine whether justice is done IAW the rule of law.

Personally, I believe this soldier should face a court-martial for capital murder, and be executed in an expedited manner.

Ideally, a person guilty of THESE crimes against humanity, should be tried on Monday, sentenced on Tuesday .. and be executed the very next day.

American soldier or not, if I were sitting on a court-martial, that would be the very way I would approach this trial (if it ever is carried out).
 
Chief Bones said:
American soldier or not, if I were sitting on a court-martial, that would be the very way I would approach this trial (if it ever is carried out).
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Any reason why the trial should be expedited in that manner, surely if you have a judicial system you are trying to sell the world as the "right" way to do things then he should go through it just as anyone else would.

Personally I doubt this guy will see trial as they are already pushing the head injury he sustained a while back, my guess is that they will go through the preliminaries and then come back with some level of insanity as a result of the injury and that will be that.
 
MontyB said:
Any reason why the trial should be expedited in that manner, surely if you have a judicial system you are trying to sell the world as the "right" way to do things then he should go through it just as anyone else would.

Personally I doubt this guy will see trial as they are already pushing the head injury he sustained a while back, my guess is that they will go through the preliminaries and then come back with some level of insanity as a result of the injury and that will be that.
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Hey Monty ..... I wasn't commenting on the judicial system, I was just giving you my opinion of how I would deal with the situation.

I saw enough of that bullcrap during my tour in Vietnam. Some of the very very weird soldiers did things that I wouldn't put up with today. I am older and less tolerant of injustices .. war or not. I am sorry but the My Lai Massacre was just the tip of the iceberg.

I personally know of at least two instances of questionable military actions, where civilians (suspected Cong), were killed in a manner suggesting executions. Military investigations cleared the soldiers involved .. however, after almost fifty years, I still remain unconvinced.

That war screwed up a whole lot of very very young men, who are still trying to deal with the ravages of that damned war.

I was (and am), very lucky that I learned to deal with my own emotions (and nightmares). There aren't very many of my old Vietnam comrades that are still living. That damned war took one hell of a toll on the men of my generation who served in that hellhole.



Sorry for the heated language.
 
ssgt kills 16 afghans

The info I have gleaned is that this bloke had been seriously wounded in the head on his third tour of Iraq. If true how in Gods Name was he allowed or even worse sent to Afghanistan. This: if true is going to cost the Army and the stupid U.S. Govt a lot of money.The lawyers will be lining up now. He will get a light sentence due to diminished responsibilty. FOR GODS SAKE BRING ALL OUR MILITARY HOME THIS WHOLE THING IN AFGHANISTAN IS A BLOODY NIGHTMARE,VIETNAM ALL OVER AGAIN.
 
Chief Bones said:
It depends on what YOU mean by rule of law.

Is it civilian or is it military???

If it is civilian, (depending on whether it is American or foreign .. on whether they have a death penalty) - on whether it is military and they are willing to try this individual as a combatant soldier ... will (in MY opinion), determine whether justice is done IAW the rule of law.

Personally, I believe this soldier should face a court-martial for capital murder, and be executed in an expedited manner.

Ideally, a person guilty of THESE crimes against humanity, should be tried on Monday, sentenced on Tuesday .. and be executed the very next day.

American soldier or not, if I were sitting on a court-martial, that would be the very way I would approach this trial (if it ever is carried out).
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The US certainly has agreements with the Afghan government concerning certain crimes. Those agreements must be respected. Whether the trial will be military or civilian must also be determined by the rule of law.
I am against the death sentence for two reasons. One, it is irreversible and two, not severe enough. For the person who gets the death penalty it is over. We don't know what happens after death. When we give him a life sentence he will regret it for the rest of his life.
 
Yeah good idea, what does it cost to keep an inmate locked up for a year something like $30,000+ nothing like paying millions to teach someone a lesson.

Oddly enough in this particular instance (read as unlike the Haditha one) I am not sure this is as clear cut as it appears, there are a lot of things that just don't add up I have little doubt that he did it as he confessed but I think there is more to it.
 
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Ever been inside a military nick?

I was escort to a bloke sentenced to 156 days in Colchester MCTC. I wasn't in there very long, I was glad to get the hell outta there.
 
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He has been flown out, presumably before anyone nabs him! I hear some of the survivors reported more than one American was involved.

The US soldier accused of killing 16 civilians, including women and children, in Afghanistan on Sunday has been flown to Kuwait, US officials say.
They say legal proceedings against the unnamed staff sergeant will now be conducted in another country. The victims were shot in their homes, causing outrage across Afghanistan.....

Members of the Afghan parliament had demanded that he should be put on trial in their country. But the BBC's Paul Adams in Washington says this was never going to happen. The US has always insisted that charges of wrongdoing by its soldiers be dealt with within the American military legal system. US officials say the soldier handed himself in. Mr Panetta has said that if found guilty, he could face the death penalty. Officials said the soldier had completed several tours in Iraq but was on his first tour of duty in Afghanistan. The Taliban have promised revenge attacks.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17375761

Presumably this is the same 'military legal system' which got its knickers in such a twist that they let all the Haditha squad off scot-free!
 
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perseus said:
Presumably this is the same 'military legal system' which got its knickers in such a twist that they let all the Haditha squad off scot-free!
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The problem here is that because they failed on the Haditha case there is no justification to go overboard and railroad the next case through the system just to prove a point.
 
Afghans are outraged that this soldier was removed from Afghanistan by the American military so quickly.

Afghans angry over removal of accused US soldier
By AMIR SHAH and SEBASTIAN ABBOT

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Afghan lawmakers expressed anger Thursday over the U.S. move to fly an American soldier accused of killing 16 civilians out of the country to Kuwait, saying Kabul shouldn't sign a strategic partnership agreement with Washington unless the suspect faces justice in Afghanistan.Negotiations over the agreement, which would govern the presence of U.S. forces in Afghanistan after most combat troops withdraw by the end of 2014, were tense even before the shooting deaths of the civilians, including nine children, in southern Kandahar province on Sunday.
The killings came in the wake of violent protests last month triggered by American soldiers who burned Qurans and other Islamic texts. Over 30 people were killed in those demonstrations, and Afghan forces turned their guns on their supposed allies, killing six U.S. soldiers.
The public response to the shooting spree has been much more muted, partly because senior Afghan officials have used their influence to persuade citizens not to hold demonstrations.
The U.S. flew the suspect out of the country on Wednesday evening, said U.S. officials. The U.S. military said the transfer did not preclude the possibility of trying the case in Afghanistan.
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If I were an Afghani, I am sorry to say - I would be very very angry if America treated my country as the American government did. They are acting more as occupiers than a force that is trying to help us. Is it any wonder that the fight for Afghanistan's heart and mind is such a failure???
 
I appreciate my career in the Army was a long time ago - but I hear reports that this guy is 38 and only a SSG. I don’t know what his career field is but the reports keep mentioning Special Ops (Civil Affairs I think) - to be just an E-6 at his age and be a veteran of several tours in a Combat Area indicates, to me, this guy had career problems prior to this incident.

I don’t think that Afgani’s will remember (or maybe even know) that some 3,000 men, women, and children were killed on 9/11 in the US - by people directed from their country.

That doesn’t, however, excuse this guys action - I hope they throw the book at him.
 
Chief Bones said:
Afghans are outraged that this soldier was removed from Afghanistan by the American military so quickly.

Afghans angry over removal of accused US soldier
By AMIR SHAH and SEBASTIAN ABBOT



If I were an Afghani, I am sorry to say - I would be very very angry if America treated my country as the American government did. They are acting more as occupiers than a force that is trying to help us. Is it any wonder that the fight for Afghanistan's heart and mind is such a failure???
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That guy does not represent the US and/or allied forces in Afghanistan.
What would you do if you were an Afghani and the US, its allies and the money leaves Afganistan? Do you think you would have a better life under the Taliban, because they will come back when the western support is gone.
BTW, the Taliban killed 5 times as much civilians as Nato forces did in 2011.
 
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