A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I just wonder what was going through his mind?
I mean.... what the heck was going on anyway when they decided to go in??
I mean.... what the heck was going on anyway when they decided to go in??
US invloment in Iraq
Devil505
Active member
FULLMETALJACKET
MilForum Bad Apple
Originally Posted By Joker
´ve got this 2 weeks ago from a friend of mine in an E-Mail. He is in the Army and has 2 tours in Iraq. I didn´t know most of it.
I think its the right spot to post it.
Did you know?
I didn't know!
How could we?
Did you know
that 47 countries' have re-established their embassies in Iraq ?
Did you know
that the Iraqi government
Currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?
Did you know
That 3100 schools have been renovated,
364 schools are under rehabilitation
263 new schools are now under construction;
and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq ?
Did you know
that Iraq 's higher educational structure consists
of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers,
all currently operating?
Did you know
that 25 Iraq students departed for the United State s in
January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?
Did you know
that the Iraqi Navy is operational?
They have 5 - 100-foot patrol craft,34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.
Did you know
that Iraq ' s Air Force consists of three operational squadrons,
Which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft
(under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night,
and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?
Did you know
that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion?
Did you know
that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000
fully trained and equipped police officers?
Did you know
that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq
that produce over 3500 new officers every 8 weeks?
Did you know
there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq ?
They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals,
83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.
Did you know
that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?
Did you know
that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid October?
Did you know
that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%?
Did you know
that Iraq has an independent media that consists of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?
Did you know
that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?
Did you know
that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a
televised debate recently?
OF COURSE WE DIDN'T KNOW!
WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW?
BECAUSE OUR MEDIA WON'T TELL US!
´ve got this 2 weeks ago from a friend of mine in an E-Mail. He is in the Army and has 2 tours in Iraq. I didn´t know most of it.
I think its the right spot to post it.
Did you know?
I didn't know!
How could we?
Did you know
that 47 countries' have re-established their embassies in Iraq ?
Did you know
that the Iraqi government
Currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?
Did you know
That 3100 schools have been renovated,
364 schools are under rehabilitation
263 new schools are now under construction;
and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq ?
Did you know
that Iraq 's higher educational structure consists
of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers,
all currently operating?
Did you know
that 25 Iraq students departed for the United State s in
January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?
Did you know
that the Iraqi Navy is operational?
They have 5 - 100-foot patrol craft,34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.
Did you know
that Iraq ' s Air Force consists of three operational squadrons,
Which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft
(under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night,
and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?
Did you know
that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion?
Did you know
that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000
fully trained and equipped police officers?
Did you know
that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq
that produce over 3500 new officers every 8 weeks?
Did you know
there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq ?
They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals,
83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.
Did you know
that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?
Did you know
that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid October?
Did you know
that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%?
Did you know
that Iraq has an independent media that consists of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?
Did you know
that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?
Did you know
that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a
televised debate recently?
OF COURSE WE DIDN'T KNOW!
WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW?
BECAUSE OUR MEDIA WON'T TELL US!
KJ
Active member
All very good.
And if the invasion had happened on those grounds a very worthy cause.
But it didn´t, did it?
Fact:
The invasion was planned and executed on the wrongful assumption that Iraq had WMD,s, no WMD,s have been located.
Nowhere PRIOR to the invasion was it said that it(the invasion) was to rid a country of a regime and to free a people of dictatorship.
No one mentioned a connection between AQ and Iraq as a motivation PRIOR to the invasion. (We now know there where none but are now since AQ declared Jihad and started sending fighters into that very unstable inviroment).
My point being.
Sure alot of good things have been done in Iraq, and maybe I had supported the invasion to reach those goals alone.
The number of troops were enough to invade and win the ground war (ie: convetional war), but nowhere near enough to keep order in the aftermath.
Fact still remains.
The invasion was to rid Iraq of WMD,s.
Had it been to root out the leadership and build a nation it was done with to few troops.
The troops worked wonders in what they knew.
Close with and destroy the enemy with superior firepower.
But no lessons from former peacekeeping/peaceenforcing missions were drawn and/or the number of troops were too small to keep the place together after the initial invasion were done.
In the case of the WMD,s and the "clear and present danger" Iraq was to the world around it it was all bollocks.
Even IF you take into account the theory of Iraq shipping their WMD,s off to Iran before the invasion Iraq didn´t pose much of a threat to anyone.
These are my two cents.
And my original question haven´t been answered really.
Why not give the troops a chance to do Afghanistan right before shifting focus?
And if the invasion had happened on those grounds a very worthy cause.
But it didn´t, did it?
Fact:
The invasion was planned and executed on the wrongful assumption that Iraq had WMD,s, no WMD,s have been located.
Nowhere PRIOR to the invasion was it said that it(the invasion) was to rid a country of a regime and to free a people of dictatorship.
No one mentioned a connection between AQ and Iraq as a motivation PRIOR to the invasion. (We now know there where none but are now since AQ declared Jihad and started sending fighters into that very unstable inviroment).
My point being.
Sure alot of good things have been done in Iraq, and maybe I had supported the invasion to reach those goals alone.
The number of troops were enough to invade and win the ground war (ie: convetional war), but nowhere near enough to keep order in the aftermath.
Fact still remains.
The invasion was to rid Iraq of WMD,s.
Had it been to root out the leadership and build a nation it was done with to few troops.
The troops worked wonders in what they knew.
Close with and destroy the enemy with superior firepower.
But no lessons from former peacekeeping/peaceenforcing missions were drawn and/or the number of troops were too small to keep the place together after the initial invasion were done.
In the case of the WMD,s and the "clear and present danger" Iraq was to the world around it it was all bollocks.
Even IF you take into account the theory of Iraq shipping their WMD,s off to Iran before the invasion Iraq didn´t pose much of a threat to anyone.
These are my two cents.
And my original question haven´t been answered really.
Why not give the troops a chance to do Afghanistan right before shifting focus?
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Right.
But NOW, there's a reason to fight. It's a pretty poor excuse and it seems like a case of a damned if you do, even more damned if you don't.
But NOW, there's a reason to fight. It's a pretty poor excuse and it seems like a case of a damned if you do, even more damned if you don't.
FULLMETALJACKET
MilForum Bad Apple
well said...(sir 
)
)
The Other Guy
Spam King
I still believe the premises behind the invasion were faulty. the CIA was given an investigation to a possible link between AQ and Iraq, and they turned up nothing. Absolutely nothing. So Rumsfeld went to the Pentagon, and created his on Intel Agency. Which was made up of amateurs who made mistakes. And then, under pressure from Rumsfeld, the CIA "found" information that Iraq was trying to buy Yellowcake, another faulty lead. Iraq hadn't had the ability to do anything Nuclear since Israel blew everything up in the 1990s.
The original plan was to send in this guy (can't recall his name off hand), and he would run the country much in the way Saddam had, but without the torture. This person supposedly had influence in Iraq. However, when he arrived, no one knew who he was. Exit strategy foiled.
What shouldn't have been done was disband the Iraqi army. The "new" army is pretty much the same personnel, only now they're angry at the US for firing them and leaving them Jobless in a country with no government for 6 months.
What should be done? It depends on who we want to protect. If we want to protect Saudi Arabia, stay. the US army is the border between Iran and S.A. at this point, and if we want to protect our interests in the latter, we need to keep those two apart. If we want to protect Israel, do whatever you want. Iraq's a mess, if Iran moves in they get virtually nothing. And Israel can still overpower them.
My idea is two new countries and one annex. Give the Shiite portion of Iraq to Iran. That will make them happier, certainly, and maybe send Jimmy Carter over there to talk to them (hey, it worked with Hamas). Secondly, Create Kurdistan. The Kurds want their own country, give it to them. Blow up whoever tries to invade. End of story. Third, create a new Iraq in the remaining portion, and give them the option to sink into one of the neighboring countries. The three groups are almost completely seperated as it is. They don't see themselves as Iraqis, they see themselves as Sunnis, or Shiites, or Kurds. Create a three-leader Baghdad or something.
Then leave.
The original plan was to send in this guy (can't recall his name off hand), and he would run the country much in the way Saddam had, but without the torture. This person supposedly had influence in Iraq. However, when he arrived, no one knew who he was. Exit strategy foiled.
What shouldn't have been done was disband the Iraqi army. The "new" army is pretty much the same personnel, only now they're angry at the US for firing them and leaving them Jobless in a country with no government for 6 months.
What should be done? It depends on who we want to protect. If we want to protect Saudi Arabia, stay. the US army is the border between Iran and S.A. at this point, and if we want to protect our interests in the latter, we need to keep those two apart. If we want to protect Israel, do whatever you want. Iraq's a mess, if Iran moves in they get virtually nothing. And Israel can still overpower them.
My idea is two new countries and one annex. Give the Shiite portion of Iraq to Iran. That will make them happier, certainly, and maybe send Jimmy Carter over there to talk to them (hey, it worked with Hamas). Secondly, Create Kurdistan. The Kurds want their own country, give it to them. Blow up whoever tries to invade. End of story. Third, create a new Iraq in the remaining portion, and give them the option to sink into one of the neighboring countries. The three groups are almost completely seperated as it is. They don't see themselves as Iraqis, they see themselves as Sunnis, or Shiites, or Kurds. Create a three-leader Baghdad or something.
Then leave.
mmarsh
Active member
You are asking the wrong question. The question is not "Did you know", its "Why should you care"? Last I checked we had our own problems with schools, employment, crime, infrustructure, etc.
This sounds like Nation Building doesn't it??? I thought Bush was absolutely against that?
The stuff of FULLMETALJACKET mentions is nice but it isn't the reason we are there. There is much worse stuff going on in Somalia and Zimbabwe. Why not build schools, train police there?
The answer is simple:
They don't have any OIL!!!
No offense intended to ya'all, but it sounds like we are still trying to justify the reason as to why we are there, -other than the real reason which is OIL. And that doesn't get mentioned in the media either.
If there is any real doubts on this last year Exxon alone posted a $40.6 Billion Dollar profit the largest of any US Firm. That $40.6 Billion is our money just like the $600 Billion spent on this disaster is coming out of our pockets. And here's the real question. For all this money spent on others, what exactly is our end of it, what do WE (The US taxpayer) gain? (aside from the bill for this catastophe).
UPDATE
I just heard the news as I finished this, Oil is rapidly up AGAIN.
This sounds like Nation Building doesn't it??? I thought Bush was absolutely against that?
The stuff of FULLMETALJACKET mentions is nice but it isn't the reason we are there. There is much worse stuff going on in Somalia and Zimbabwe. Why not build schools, train police there?
The answer is simple:
They don't have any OIL!!!
No offense intended to ya'all, but it sounds like we are still trying to justify the reason as to why we are there, -other than the real reason which is OIL. And that doesn't get mentioned in the media either.
If there is any real doubts on this last year Exxon alone posted a $40.6 Billion Dollar profit the largest of any US Firm. That $40.6 Billion is our money just like the $600 Billion spent on this disaster is coming out of our pockets. And here's the real question. For all this money spent on others, what exactly is our end of it, what do WE (The US taxpayer) gain? (aside from the bill for this catastophe).
UPDATE
I just heard the news as I finished this, Oil is rapidly up AGAIN.
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The Other Guy
Spam King
True...
I wish my freaking overcrowded school had enough support to build a new one. But because the Educational system is strapped, as are most middle-class Americans at this point, the only way to get a good education is to get rich.
I wish my freaking overcrowded school had enough support to build a new one. But because the Educational system is strapped, as are most middle-class Americans at this point, the only way to get a good education is to get rich.
senojekips
Active member
Sad, very sad, but,... unfortunately it does seem to be true.
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The Other Guy
Spam King
Well if the damn enviromentalists would let us drill on our own land, we wouldn't be having this problem.
Fine, we'll start with your backyard.
03USMC
Active member
Fine, we'll start with your backyard.
Start in mine. But if they find anything I want my fair share of the mineral rights.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Well if the damn enviromentalists would let us drill on our own land, we wouldn't be having this problem.
You know I generally hate environmentalists but in this case they are doing you a favour...
At some point in our future we are going to have to leave oil behind whether its because of alternatives, its too expensive or because we have run out we will stop using it so the more difficulties the "environmentalists" throw in the way the sooner that process will happen.
I think its all time we faced the fact that even if all the restrictions on drilling were removed and we could get enough oil to drive the price back to where it was 10 years ago it would only be a short term event and 20 years after we had achieved it we would be paying 10 time the amount we are now.
Essentially if we had any vision for the future we wouldn't be trying to strip mine the earth for 6 months worth of gas we would be demanding investment in viable alternative replacements.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Well if the damn enviromentalists would let us drill on our own land, we wouldn't be having this problem.
No, the quantity isn't even close.
The Other Guy
Spam King
Sort of an off-topic side note, but while we've migrated to oil I'd like to hit this:
Why can't an American company make a hybrid that works well? There are regular Japanese cars that get better mileage than the new Malibu Hybrid. And the Prius gets twice the mileage.
What gives GM? Did you destroy everything to do with your EV-1, or just the cars?
Why can't an American company make a hybrid that works well? There are regular Japanese cars that get better mileage than the new Malibu Hybrid. And the Prius gets twice the mileage.
What gives GM? Did you destroy everything to do with your EV-1, or just the cars?
If you look, the numbers we have lost and the time we have been there in terms of wars past is not even a drop in the bucket. We have lost more in one day in wars past than we have since we kicked OIF off KIA wise.
Its funny though, we in america fuss about gas prices yet compaired to europe and asia our gas is cheap lol.
I honestly think taking into account the inflation of the dollar back when gas was 30 cents a gallon vs today it would probably come close to even.
And if it comes down to oil being the only reason we invaded iraq (which it wasnt), its human nature and has been done since time has began. Survival of the fittest, the stronger taking the weaker for gain? People scream injustice, but in the end the majority dont care after the tv and newpapers are outa mind and they are standing at the gas pump... they just want their gas cheaper thats the bottom line to the average joe on the street.
I seen it put best in a photo taken in iraq of words wrote on the wall of an abandoned house... "American is not at war....Marines are at war.... America is at the mall" in the end the consumer just wants more to consume however it has to be gotten.
Its funny though, we in america fuss about gas prices yet compaired to europe and asia our gas is cheap lol.
I honestly think taking into account the inflation of the dollar back when gas was 30 cents a gallon vs today it would probably come close to even.
And if it comes down to oil being the only reason we invaded iraq (which it wasnt), its human nature and has been done since time has began. Survival of the fittest, the stronger taking the weaker for gain? People scream injustice, but in the end the majority dont care after the tv and newpapers are outa mind and they are standing at the gas pump... they just want their gas cheaper thats the bottom line to the average joe on the street.
I seen it put best in a photo taken in iraq of words wrote on the wall of an abandoned house... "American is not at war....Marines are at war.... America is at the mall" in the end the consumer just wants more to consume however it has to be gotten.
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senojekips
Active member
I agree with this appraisal. The answer to the oil and its associated problems has to be motivated by necessity. So easing a way around the current position is very short-term.
America, driven by necessity, can take the transport situation to where it should be - ie. not reliant on oil.
Fuel here costs us in excess of $10 per gallon, mostly accounted for in tax, so we have the necessity; the difference is that our government like it that way - they are at war with the car and wish to stop the man in the street from using it. So, unfortunately, in our case here, necessity has not become a motivation. I believe this attitude locks us into a primitive position of non-progress.
America has to make it happen.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Economics - Politics - Military
Are all linked.
Also when it comes to statistics, percentages are the most misleading.
A sad thing is, it seems like the people are more sick of actually seeing it on the news rather than the fact that a war is going on.
Are all linked.
Also when it comes to statistics, percentages are the most misleading.
A sad thing is, it seems like the people are more sick of actually seeing it on the news rather than the fact that a war is going on.
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