It's war, not a game. They use a religious building as a bunker, it's now a bunker. Someone posted some links around here of a chopper taking out targets, in which you can clearly hear the fire controller telling the crew to avoid hitting a certain building cause it's a mosque. Also, again, it's war. there will be civilian casualties, on both sides. This means women, children, old folks, contractors, puppies and kitties. This is what your tax dollars are paying for, so get used to it. I disagree with this war, but I won't handcuff the men and women over there just to make myself feel better. They have to do what it takes to survive and win.

Originally Posted by Jamoni

I disagree with this war, but I won't handcuff the men and women over there just to make myself feel better. They have to do what it takes to survive and win.

I agree with you there.
I too was against the war, but that doesn't mean that I do not support the troops down there.
They are doing a great job!

It's very easy for us to sit home here and criticize their actions.
But if you have served abroad (Balkans, Middle East etc..) you will see that it's almost commmon practise to use women, children, restricted buildings (hospitals, churches, mosques etc..) as shields...
I do of course feel real sorry for the killed and injured innocent women and children, but whose fault is it????
The men (cowards) hiding behind them and shooting, or the ones defending themself and shooting back...??

We have to trust the troops down there that they make the right decisions, mistakes can of course happen, but that's a part of war (for all involved parties)
I'm sure that they don't fire at mosques etc. without a damned good reason!

The shit is hitting the fan there right now huh? I mean, the street fighting abd all...I say, USA is going to get the full scope Lebanon effect, if you know what i mean redleg...

Originally Posted by sherman105

The shit is hitting the fan there right now huh? I mean, the street fighting abd all...I say, USA is going to get the full scope Lebanon effect, if you know what i mean redleg...

I really don't hope so...
But a Mosque/Religion is one of the worst things you can mess with down there, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, it will only end up being USA anyway...

The american soldiers will be in Iraq for a VERY long and costly stay....

Germans in world war 2 disagreed with Hitler's action does that mean they were all in a lethargic whimpy position of saying "support the troops" ? Hell no. Did the Partigiani in Italy "support the troops" and let Mussolini run all over them? No. When you have a cause, you defend your cause to the extreme and you strictly oppose any branch or hand of the enemy cause, no matter how innocent one may be. Obedience can be deadly, any of you learned the Milgram study in high school ? So anybody that claims to have been against the war but that supports the troops was never really against the war.

Christos, what do you want? You keep comparing Israel and the USA to dark rejiems like Hitlers and Saddams. Do you really think Bush and Sharon are awfull tyrants...? I mean, do you think that the US is no longer a democracy? Just because someone dossent think somthing is not a smart political/military move dosent make apposed to the entire way of govronment in his country. Once in 4 years we have elections in democracys, and then you can choose what ever govronment you want.
Now, what will you gain from an American defeat in Iraq? Dont you see that, even if Bush is a cowboy, he is on the side of freedom? Do you think the muslim fundamentalists are good people? Was Yassin a good man? Was Saddam a good leader? Is Bin Laden your idea of freedom? Cause, and you need to see this clearly- This is not somthing that you can mix&match about-Youre either with terror or against it, either active for freedom or active for chaos and evil. WWIII is going on out there right now, and you are siding with the likes of Hitler and Mosolini. I dont know what caused you to think that those bastards will side with you when its all over....Because they will either see you converted or see you dead.

Christos, yawn. I don't like Bush. I think he's a boor and a demagogue. He's certainly the worst diplomat I've ever seen. But I am a patriot and a believer in the Constitution of the United States. I advocate the removal of Bush from the White House through the usual technique: Voting. To advocate violent overthrow or resistance to his regime would be treason to a country I love. Read that again: I LOVE my country and DEMOCRACY MORE than I hate BUSH. I support the troops because my brothers and my friends are among them, and I want them to live. I am against the war. I believe it was started under known false pretenses, but now it is here, and we cannot just disengage. We must finish what we have started, or things will be left far worse than before. Even if Bush loses the election, there will be a US presence in Iraq for years to come. That's just the way it is.
Sherman, you hit the nail on the head. One can be opposed to the policy of a government without feeling the need to tear the whole thing down. Although I disagree that bush is on the side of freedom. Bush is on the side of Bush. Unfortunately, your remarks about WW3 ring true, because I believe Bush will escalate the conflict beyond it's present boundaries. Probably around election time.

Originally Posted by sherman105

Christos, what do you want? You keep comparing Israel and the USA to dark rejiems like Hitlers and Saddams. Do you really think Bush and Sharon are awfull tyrants...? I mean, do you think that the US is no longer a democracy? Just because someone dossent think somthing is not a smart political/military move dosent make apposed to the entire way of govronment in his country. Once in 4 years we have elections in democracys, and then you can choose what ever govronment you want.
Now, what will you gain from an American defeat in Iraq? Dont you see that, even if Bush is a cowboy, he is on the side of freedom? Do you think the muslim fundamentalists are good people? Was Yassin a good man? Was Saddam a good leader? Is Bin Laden your idea of freedom? Cause, and you need to see this clearly- This is not somthing that you can mix&match about-Youre either with terror or against it, either active for freedom or active for chaos and evil. WWIII is going on out there right now, and you are siding with the likes of Hitler and Mosolini. I dont know what caused you to think that those bastards will side with you when its all over....Because they will either see you converted or see you dead.

I understand..
I am not putting Hitler and George Bush and the same level... Likewise, I am against terrorism and terrorists, I think Saddam was a bad man, just like countless other dictators around the world. However, I think the war in Iraq was started on false pretexts and total lies to the public. Bush lied to us so much, he was practically toying with us. He was probably telling himself "Look at these idiots, do they actually believe me?". Colin Powell admitted recently that the evidence he presented before the Security Council was flawed. In short, everything points to a total manipulation of public opinion by George Bush and his warmonger administration.

The only part you don't understand in me is that I do not support troops in Iraq; I think that is the best way to radically fight the war movement, to discourage the soldiers who they themselves have been brainwashed in thinking like Baby-killers by their superiors, and make them want to come back home to their families and continue their lives in peace.

Using a phrase like "baby-killers" (wholly inorrectly, I have to add) on a forum full of military personnel is not the best way to convince people your position is the correct one (which it most definitely is not).


If I may quote RnderSafe, you're a funny girl, Christos.