Up on the soap box: student financial aid

Duty Honor Country

Duty Honor Country

Active member
I was sitting in my public speaking class enduring the various speeches made by my fellow students. Then this one girl gat up and spoke about student financial aid. She said that it normally takes students 5-6 years to graduate college, and if they did summer classes, they could finish in 3-4 years. Her point was that the government does not offer financial aid for summer classes and they should do so. Then it got personal. She said that has not recieved enough financial aid as it is even though she gets benefits bacause her dad was in Vietnam. Since she can get no aid for summer classes, she has no "income" over the summer. At this point, she broke down crying and said that the government needs to do more to fund her education.

I could not believe what I was seeing. This girl was crying because she was not getting enough money from the government. Her case basically says "I am entitled to this money for my education," yet she has done nothing to earn it. It does not help that she is getting money for what her dad whent through in Vietnam. I am really sick of people thinking that they are entitled to free money from the government.

My opinion on this matter ranges from a wide range of things. My family was not that affluent and my mom couldn' pay my way through college, so I went into the military. I do not consider that free entitlements since I could have come home in a body bag during my time in Iraq. Then there is the fact that high school has become a factory for sending kids to school. Seeing the attitudes and intelligence of a many college students, I can safely say many do not need to be there. It's the guy or chick that is at college to party and has a 2.0 that gets all these wonderful grants from the government for their "higer education" of budwiser and absolute. The fact that about 30% of freshmen do not comeback for their 2nd year supports my claim that not everyone needs to be in college.

My ramblings are over with and I am stepping off the soap box for someone elses turn.

Cheers

Doody
 
Doody said:
She said that it normally takes students 5-6 years to graduate college, and if they did summer classes, they could finish in 3-4 years.
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Five to six years to finish for undergrad while attending full time?!? Maybe she should stop attending so many keggers. :???:
 
Doody

I see what trying to say, but I look at the otherside of the coin.

The average private college is about $30,000 a year. Public school tuition is also rapidly rising. Its becoming so that only the wealthy can afford to go to school without financial aid. I didnt qualify for aid so my poor father had to cough up the dough by borrowing it for both my sister and I. Some people got a BMW to go to college as a graduation present, I got to go, period, and I'm greatful for that.

Family incomes and savings are all on the decline so it becomes increasing harder to pay the college tuition bills. So how else can middle class America afford to go to college? The US Govornment spends billions on pork from bridges to knowhere to pet defense projects whose use is only political, such as our missile shield.

I personally would be in favour of limiting this waste and redirecting some of this money towards peoples education. The people going into college today is the nation's future.

While I am in all in favor that organisations such as the military offer incentives, I dont think the military should be the ONLY method, espically right now as there is a small chance a personmight return alive or intact.

I cede the soapbox...
 
Being a highschool student enterting college soon, Im kinda torn. On one hand my conservatism sides completely with doody, but I know unless I join the military going to college is going to be a pain. Im not a dumby and may get a few scholarships but, in all likelyhood not nearly enough to go through school entirely on. I live in a single parent house-hold and investments starting at age 6 have given me a pretty solid amount of cash to go on. However, money from the government sure would be appreciated. I dont feel entitled, I would just appreciate it.

I have no desires to join the military. If called on by my government I will, but other wise its just not for me. Call me a wussy and you'd probally be right.
 
My school (California State University Long Beach) offers grants for summer classes. It's not from the federal government but rather from the school itself to students who show a strong will to succeed (i.e. min GPA 2.5, completed at least 12 units at CSULB, must have declared major, and must be in good standing with the school). Needless to say, it's not too hard to obtain this grant. I was actually granted this offer of $1200 which I am using to knock down 2 classes over the summer. I guess the key thing is that you gotta be somewhat smart and focused then the school will reward you.

As for the girl complaining.... can you say welfare-in-training?

Seriously, it's not too hard to earn a higher education in the US if you make an effort towards it. Be glad you do not live in China where if you do not get an extremely high score on the college entrance exam, then you will probably be doing acrobatic stunts at Disney World, Florida for the rest of your life.
 
doody said:
Her case basically says "I am entitled to this money for my education," yet she has done nothing to earn it.
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If she is entitled to the money, the government should pay up! If the gov. doesn't want to pay up, the they shouldn't entitle it to students. But for the rest I think she is a whino! Practically all of my college and uni-friends had jobs to support themselves. Just to sit there and wait untill you get enough is not the proper attitude! Maybe she was already working triple shifts, but it would have helped if she would say so.
 
I earned my ride through college like Doody and feel no sympathy for this little girl. Her dad should have raised her to be more than a victim.
 
Ted said:
If she is entitled to the money, the government should pay up! If the gov. doesn't want to pay up, the they shouldn't entitle it to students. But for the rest I think she is a whino! Practically all of my college and uni-friends had jobs to support themselves. Just to sit there and wait untill you get enough is not the proper attitude! Maybe she was already working triple shifts, but it would have helped if she would say so.
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She's not entitled to a free education. She's getting the benefits her father earned, she's not entitled to those. The government does this as a way of saying "thanks." It's a gift to her, from her father. And from what Doody says, she's getting that plus other aid, but feels it isn't enough.

I'm sorry, but the government has no obligation to educate people. If people would only spend a few hours plowing through all of the grants out there, it's pretty easy to get the government to pay for your education if you take the time to apply for the millions of grants out there.

My sister got through medical school with only 10K debt (from an Ivy league school) thanks to scholarships and *tada* grants.

Student loans aren't hard to get, either, and most don't require you to pay until after you graduate.

I think it's just a case of people being lazy, wanting and feeling like the government is supposed to do for them instead of them doing for themselves.

Back to that personal responsibility thing.

Ted's right, she's a whiney baby. (whino is a drunk here :D )

Rabs said:
Call me a wussy and you'd probally be right.
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Wussy. :mrgreen: Just kidding. It's good you recognize what you do and do not what to do. There's plenty of ways to help your country that don't require someone to be in the military. Not everyone is cut out for it, just like not everyone is cut out to be a lawyer, doctor, activist, etc. You aren't any worse, or any better because you don't feel the military is for you. Good luck with school! (Make sure you check out all of the grants out there, coming from a single parent home, you'll be eligible for a lot)
 
I agree with you PJ! The point I was trying to make is this. If the government had made a policy that they would give money, they should stick to their word. Logical isn't it? Promise something, stick to your word. If not, she should stop crying, get of her butt and start to work!
 
Ted said:
I agree with you PJ! The point I was trying to make is this. If the government had made a policy that they would give money, they should stick to their word. Logical isn't it? Promise something, stick to your word. If not, she should stop crying, get of her butt and start to work!
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From what Doody said, it isn't a case of the government not giving her the money, it's that she just feels it isn't 'enough.' Sorta the "gimme, gimme, gimme" syndrome.

The government in the US is usually really good about following through on finacial aid and grants. Benefits for Vets kids, again, never heard of any problems. My brother and sister never had any problems getting theirs, and I just used my own military benefits.

This girl just sounds like a slacker that doesn't want to earn her way and feels like she's owed something more than she's already getting. If it's going to take her 6 years to get her undergrad, something is wrong. Why can't she get a job and go to school? Lots of other people do it. I've seen single parents working a full time job/part-time job and raising their kid along do it. Like the old cliche, "where there's a will, there's a way."

I can't help but shake my head and people like that. :???:
 
PJ24

I have to disagree with you, there is a theory in conservative thought that the govornment need only provide military protection for it people. That would work...if every single American were a millionaire.

I think the govornment does have responisbility in educating its people. The reason being is that the youth represent the future they are our future military officiers, scientists, engineers, doctors, lawyers, politicans, you name it. If the govornment doesn't provide aid to tuition costs either by subsidizing the tuition or controlling tuition costs, two things will most certainly happen:

1. We will suffer an enormous 'brain drain' espically compared to other countries in both Europe and Asia where education IS subsidized by the govornment. In France for example, anybody can go to university regardless of income. China is cranking out College graduates by the 1000's and these are the guys we will have to compete against. Do we really want to give them an additional advantage by shooting ourselves in the foot by undereducating our youth?

2. We will decend into the bottomless pit of oligarchy (which is already happening) due to the fact that the extremely wealthy will be the only ones to have an education and therefore be in control of every sector of our country. You'll have very few people like Dwight D. Eisenhower and Bill Clinton who was born in poverty and made it to the top, and much more people like the Bush and Kennedy Family Dynasties who were born with a silver spoon up their a**.

I think it would be an absolute disaster. I'm all for limited govornment, but limited from things we DON'T need (like bridges to nowhere) not limitations that are vital to the future of the country.
 
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mmarsh said:
PJ24

I have to disagree with you, I think the govornment does have responisbility in educating its people. The reason being is that the youth represent the future they are our future doctors, lawyers, politicans, you name it. If the govornment doesn't provide aid to tuition costs either by subsidizing the tuition or controlling tuition costs, two than two things will happen:

1. We will suffer an enormous 'brain drain' espically compared to other countries in both Europe and Asia where education IS subsidized by the govornment. In France, anybody can go to university regardless of income. China is cranking out College graduates by the 1000's and these are the guys we will have to compete against. Do we really want to give them an additional advantage by shooting ourselves in the foot by undereducating our youth?

2. We will decend into the bottomless pit of oligarchy (which is already happening) due to the fact that the extremely wealthy will be the only ones to have an education and therefore be in control of every sector of our country...
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I do agree with you about education, and I agree about tuition caps, I am also in line with the government offering financial aid. The thing is, they do offer it. I'd love to see the government clamp down on some of these tuition costs, though.

It isn't the governments job to motivate you and make you get off of your butt, though. You have to do that on your own. The money from the government IS out there. Look through a grant book some time, it's amazing the amount of money not only the Fed. government gives out, but also state, county, city and even private citizens.You can have someone else pay for your entire education if you're willing to do the research and leg work and simply apply. What's so wrong with that?

I can't fall in line with the thinking that a "hand out" is better than earning your place. The money's out there, they're just too lazy or ignorant to go out and get it.

Then, there's also student loans. If you're not willing to take the longer, but easier road, you can always get those.

The military, another option. Yeah, it can get hairy, but there's 15 month enlistments that offer benefits now.

A job. Plenty of kids go to school, get student aid, grants, work to supplement and still manage to do well.

Do I believe there are some kids out there that deserve a helping hand? Absolutely! But when you've got a girl that's already receiving aid and vets benefits complaining because she isn't being given enough, yet, shows no desire to work and help herself, something is wrong there.

For most people, bottom line comes down to what you are willing to do and sacrifice to better yourself.

 
question: how does the american education system work?

when i finished highschool i got a mark that enabled me to go to Uni. i wasn't able to do the course i really really wanted because i didn't get a high enough mark and i didn't have enough money. one thing that really really pissed me off is that if you have the money, you can do pretty much anything. since when does your parents wealth have any relationship to your mental powers. complete bollocks. i know of people who studied their butts off, got top marks and got into law/medicine/high score courses who are classmates with daddies little princesses who thinks they want to do the course so thier parents pay for it upfront. and dont get me started on international students. it seems unis really dont give a damn about them, they just want thier money. there were that many students who could no barely speak a word of english but were someone still enrolled.

because i couldn't pay for my course upfront i have deferred the payment. when i earn over a certain amount it starts getting taken out of my pay.



while on the subject of money, on today tonight (or ACA, cant remember which, both crap shows) they had a story about a guy who was complaining because the bank approved a 15K loan for him and he couldn't pay it back. he was whinging that they should have known that he was only a student and only earned 18K a year so how was he meant to pay it back, blah blah blah. to which the bank manager turned around and said "the people who approve the loans over the phone have 5 criteria. i have your sheet here, you passed all 5, therefore you got the loan. start taking responsibility for your own actions" the bank manager is my hero!!!
 
PJ24 said:
Five to six years to finish for undergrad while attending full time?!? Maybe she should stop attending so many keggers. :???:
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Yeah, I'm attending a tier-1 university and earning both a major and a minor. I could graduate in december but I'm saying on the full 4 years just because there are more business and film classes I want to take as electives.

I am NOT that smart of a dope and I can finish in 3.5 years. Now people are crying because the government won't pay them to go 5-6 years in college? People give you FREE STUFF, then you go on to fail at making your grades, so you then go back and complain you arn't getting enough FREE STUFF?

Useless.
 
Locke said:
they had a story about a guy who was complaining because the bank approved a 15K loan for him and he couldn't pay it back. he was whinging that they should have known that he was only a student and only earned 18K a year so how was he meant to pay it back, blah blah blah. to which the bank manager turned around and said "the people who approve the loans over the phone have 5 criteria. i have your sheet here, you passed all 5, therefore you got the loan. start taking responsibility for your own actions"
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Haha, great. I've seen that numerous times here, people in talk or "infotainment"-shows wining how they can't pay there debts and why its all the fault of the bank giving them the money. I guess if the bank hadn't given them any money they would be there whining about that too.


About education: I've heard that in the States you have to go to college for about any sort of solid education? Like if you want to become a tracer or a hospital nurse, you have to go to college. Is that so?
 
loki said:
About education: I've heard that in the States you have to go to college for about any sort of solid education? Like if you want to become a tracer or a hospital nurse, you have to go to college. Is that so?
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Of course, you can't just come out of high school at 18 years of age and be trained as a nurse. There are optional programs, two year or four year to become an RN (Registered Nurse). You don't have to attend a full academic university though. There are a lot of trade (or technical) colleges in the US. Mostly two year programs that anything from Law Enforcement to welding. You can become a nurse by attending the two year program or you can get your BSN if you attend a four year university.

There difference in the options being with a technical college, you're getting your 101 (basic english, math, etc) courses and that's it, then you immediately start training as a nurse. With the BSN (4 year) you spend the first two years doing regular acedemic work, and the latter two focusing on your medical training. Both are nurses, both have the same basic knowledge and skills, one has simply spent two extra years learning academics.

 
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