Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners? - Page 6




 
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Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners?
 
June 8th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners?
Padre - nice post - I am not attempting to match the Australian situation with the middle east .

My quetions are not going in that direction. Watch this space.
I am still concentrating. Back later.
June 8th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
Do not ask me to answer on behalf of others, I cannot, just as I cannot undo the past. I can only speak for myself here and now.

Any question I have allegedly bypassed, was ignored for one of two reasons, either the answer has already been given, or it was so blatantly obvious as not to be worthy of an answer, I do realise that you are trying to bait me with trivialities to get away from my original point, so be aware that there is a limit to what I will bother answering.

My points are not uninformed, it is merely that they do not agree with your thinking. Also they cannot be taken "onwards and upwards", because there is no where to go, they are my opinion and that is that.

You may wander where you like, but don't necessarily expect me to follow. I only follow where there is something to be gained by the debate , and so far you have not given me cause to do that. To be an effective "leader" you must firstly move forward, not round and round or sideways.
June 9th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Do not ask me to answer on behalf of others, I cannot, just as I cannot undo the past. I can only speak for myself here and now.

Any question I have allegedly bypassed, was ignored for one of two reasons, either the answer has already been given, or it was so blatantly obvious as not to be worthy of an answer, I do realise that you are trying to bait me with trivialities to get away from my original point, so be aware that there is a limit to what I will bother answering.

My points are not uninformed, it is merely that they do not agree with your thinking. Also they cannot be taken "onwards and upwards", because there is no where to go, they are my opinion and that is that.

You may wander where you like, but don't necessarily expect me to follow. I only follow where there is something to be gained by the debate , and so far you have not given me cause to do that. To be an effective "leader" you must firstly move forward, not round and round or sideways.
I can understand your difficulty in answering one straightforward direct question so I will answer it for you.
You have indicated that Europeans were given Israel by those who had no right to do so. By whose right was Australia given to latecomer Europeans? And you claim that no indigenous peoples are banned from anywhere in Aus - well, they would be if they were killing white men, women, children civilians.

So far your logic doesn't stand up. I have used your own measurement.

For some unknown reason you query my use of the word Arab. I call an Arab an Arab. The logic being Arab = semite. Jew = semite. Arab = Arab. Jew=Jew. Funnily enough I do the same in the case of many other peoples of the same group, call them by their names. And I know all there is to know about Semites and Anti-Semites.

You ridicule my pointing out that your people were subject to many holocausts. This was not to distract from The Holocaust in any way.

The Romans were unrelenting in their fury at their difficulty in holding down your people, and after the last revolt drove the Israelites from their
homeland. This was not an evacuation, it was a complete holocaust that fell upon the Jews and also Jerusalem, the heart of the Jewish people, was carefully laid waste, leaving only the Western (wailing) Wall as shelter for their remaining caretaker troop.

They cleared the land by holocuast, and over the first few centuries of the first millenium, The Romans did the same to every sign of the Jews attempts at rekindling the population of their homeland. A new holocaust descended. The emptying of Israel was never one clean operation, The Romans barred the Jews for hundreds of years. From then on, various holocausts followed whenever considered necessary by the invasion by various Islamic powers, even the Crusaders who controlled Israel for two hundred years befroe they were finally removed by The Mamelukes, fair-skinned, fierce and powerful, who stopped the drive of Genghis Khan. Eventually the Ottoman Empire took over.

The Jews were kept from their homeland by conquest always, not by abandonment.

You claim, disgustingly in my opinion, that all the Jew's woes were brought upon themselves by the own fault, and put forward lack of Assimilation, -at the same time then you claim that generations of your friends and family assimilated very well, and achieved success.
This was precisely the point I made originally. The Jews have been great Assimilaters and have served countries well for hundreds of years, and this despite severe ghetto-isation. In the first Millenium the commander of Portugese armies was a Jew, German Jews in the 20th c. were loyal military commanders, and holders of The Iron Cross. The Jews, paryicularly Sephardis, suffered from the opposite problem, too much success. They doctored, advised and financed Europe's Kings, financed the building of Cathedrals, rose to high position under the Moors, and lived peacefully, even tho under a special high tax, until The Pope produced the inquisition.
When The Kings wished to relieve themselves of their debts to Jews, they removed all Jews from there Kingdoms, and they left with nothing each time. They had achieved nobility in those countries.

Two days after Christopher Colombus left for his voyage of discovery with the inspiration, support , and supplication for Christopher to the King, his friend, the Jewish adviser to the crown, was removed with all the Jews in the country
at short notice and with nothing. This was to appease Rome to a large extent.

This man was appointed then to the Portugese court and did the same for Vasca Da Gama, and achieved even greater success, until eventually all Jews were again driven away with nothing. These were loyal families, and many had been christians for hundreds of years.

When Oliver Cromwell invited them back to England, they achieved great commercial success for England, and have done so ever since.

Let me shock you - they did the same for New York.

Therefore your logic collapses again, your opinions are developed by the acceptance of racist character destruction. You need to know far,far more about your heritage.

Until i recheck, i cannot remember what other points you have erroneously posted, so i will break now. But after i have done that, i will be finished with this thread. Their will be no more pearls of wisdom from yours truly on the subject. It has ceased to be fun.

Oh yes - the difference between the Holocaust times and israel now. I am surprised you never noticed :

The Jews were not threatening Germany with destruction
The Jews were not killing German civilians.
The Jews did not spend decades simply trying to sweep germany away
The Jews were happy to live happily side by side with germans.
The Jews were Germans.
The Jews were supportive of germany and had fought in the WW1 for their country.
The Jews were not calling their neighbours to descend upon germany.
The Jews were not shelling Germany daily.
The germans did not have to strive to keep The Jews out for their own security.
The germans were not fighting for their lives.
The Jews did not seek confrontation.
The Jews lost millions from institutional genocide.
The Jews lost millions through the gas chambers.
Enough?

Oh. but of course, I have to say it for them, or its obviously Poor Me!

On this issue, your opinion is no longer of interest to me.
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Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners?
June 9th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
You haven't been reading my answers have you? Then you presume to answer (wrongly) on my behalf.

Please start again after reading my previous answers.

I don't ridicule anything, that is your impression , NOT mine.

Quote:
You claim, disgustingly in my opinion, that all the Jew's woes were brought upon themselves by the own fault, and put forward lack of Assimilation, -at the same time then you claim that generations of your friends and family assimilated very well, and achieved success.
I never at any time stated that the truth would be pleasant.

Of course I used the example of those who assimilated not having any problems, it backs up my former point with which you are at odds saying that many of the problems suffered were bought about by lack of integration. It reinforces the point that those who have assimilated do not suffer the problems that many of the other Jews whinge about. What is so hard to understand about that?

As for your historical references, I say, "This is a good example of what this debate is all about" Isn't it time you let go of the past and started living in the present? My ancestors both Jewish and Gentile have all no doubt suffered various indignities over the years, but we don't go on bleating about it. It's time you started to live in the present instead of whining about the past, move on.

Right at the outset I clearly stated that i do not wish to go down this road, but you insist on coming back to it. I have stated my case and I care not a damn what you think of it. it is my honest opinion and that is that.

And with that I will refrain from this debate, as I wish to move on.
June 9th, 2007  
WNxRogue
 
 
In my opinion, if you are going to give the jewish population a so-called "homeland", then be prepared to give one to the Mormans, Scientologists, Confucionists, Taoists and every other religion out there. As for del boy's point about the Jews being in isreal first, that entire argument is ludacris. I say that we should take everyone out of every place they didnt originally come. Europe? Nope, originally it was settled by African proto-humans. The America's? Nope, same thing. Now obviously this is an extension of what Del is trying to say, but the jewish people lost their homeland, by your own admittance, in the Roman times. Over say.....2000 years ago. Should we recreate the Roman Empire? Give America back to the various warring Indian tribes?

" well, they would be if they were killing white men, women, children civilians."

Id hope anyone would be barred from anywhere that wasnt the inside of a jail if they did this, regardless of race. Or are you advocating violence against civilians as long as the perpetrater is a minority?

Here is the way it is. It was a bad situation where outsiders got involved where they probably shouldnt have. They created a situation where the Palestinian people, the inhabitants of the country now called "isreal" have very little power. The Palestinians are not the only ones guilty of killing innocents, they just do it in the only way they can, whereas the government uses high tech weapons to attack Palestinians. There is no need to argue for a "Jewish Homeland" or to claim that "they were there first". Those two arguments are completely and tottaly bullsh*t.

*Ducks to avoid the incoming flames*
June 9th, 2007  
bulldogg
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRogue

*Ducks to avoid the incoming flames*
You're not that important kid.
June 9th, 2007  
Gator
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy
The Jews were not threatening Germany with destruction
The Jews were not killing German civilians.
The Jews did not spend decades simply trying to sweep germany away
The Jews were happy to live happily side by side with germans.
The Jews were Germans.
The Jews were supportive of germany and had fought in the WW1 for their country.
The Jews were not calling their neighbours to descend upon germany.
The Jews were not shelling Germany daily.
The germans did not have to strive to keep The Jews out for their own security.
The germans were not fighting for their lives.
The Jews did not seek confrontation.
The Jews lost millions from institutional genocide.
The Jews lost millions through the gas chambers.
Enough?

The Jews did vote to kill Jesus though.....

Saint Matthew 27:25

Quote:
And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children"
June 9th, 2007  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator
The Jews did vote to kill Jesus though.....

Saint Matthew 27:25
Hmm at 27 to 25 it was a closer vote than I expected although voter turn out seems incredibly low.

June 9th, 2007  
Gator
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Hmm at 27 to 25 it was a closer vote than I expected.

And..... Saint Peter may have been a little late for the Vote, still in denial mode no doubt, and Women may not have been allowed to Vote, as such that would have knocked the Mary's out, the outcome could have been very different indeed.


Note: I'm still trying to figure out what the Germans and the holocaust inflicted on the Jews has to do with the British protectorate of Palestine.

Logically the Jews of Europe should have been given a Homeland inside Germany or Italy..... unless there was some sort of alliance between either the Palestinians and or the British with Axis Germany during World War II.
June 9th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Note: I'm still trying to figure out what the Germans and the holocaust inflicted on the Jews has to do with the British protectorate of Palestine.
The Brits in effect gave away that which was not theirs to give.
 


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