The United States of Europe - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
March 21st, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Of course the Basques and their issues.
Well, this is a different problem. It will be great for a new topic. The issues that the Basques want will never happen. I do not think they will be independant, it just does not make any sense, they have never beeb independat from Spain, science Spain is Spain they have always been part of us. They are having elections in April and will see what hapens. It is something that they can not decide, all the Spanish people have to decide about it.

They also have a huge economic dependance on Spain, they get tons of money from the State(all of us), if some day they declare independant all spanish bussines will leave inmediatly,I guess that a border will be created and they will be isoleted, I do not think that´s what they won´t, I think they just won´t more power,but I have to say that The Basque Country is almost like an State, they have their own police, they have their own parlament with more capability to make laws that other territories....

It is important to say also that one of the misions of the spanish army is to keep the territorial integrity of Spain of course....
March 21st, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I think the bigger question there is does NATO have a future, I dont think it has personally I think it will be replaced by the EDF.

I doubt they will have the same weapons either but I fully expect them to arm themselves with equipment that follows "European" guide lines ie can use the same ammunition.

Quote:
But the UK wants the JSF and will get it, while the rest of Europe won't.
Yes but really does Britain have a place in the "new" Europe, they seem luke warm on it at best and that feeling seems to be shared by the rest of Europe toward Britain, I really dont see Britain going a lot further down the European road.
Does NATO have a future? I don't think that's what we discussed here at all. We were talking about the Euro Corps, which by the way I think is what you're calling the EDF (European Defense Force?). This issue is brought up almost every time they meet but time and again it's always scrubbed. I think they even have the rank insignias made up for such a unit... which doesn't exist.
I think whatever happens, ALL SIDES must try to make sure that NATO does live on. You're going to need it when China becomes REALLY strong. Europe and North America need each other. That's just the way I see it. Sure the personalities clash, but if the two realize how important each other are, I think these opposite tendencies can serve as strengths for both sides.
One of the main reasons I believe a truly unified Europe can't develop is the mistrust of the French. They've had a long history of party pooping Europe, not just the US, throughout the Cold War. When something as big as a unification of Europe is on the table and you got a player as big as France, trust becomes a HUGE issue.
March 21st, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
There are still widening cracks between the French and German Politicians, although differences are to be put aside.
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Boots
March 21st, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Got a question...


13th, I am not too familiar with "party pooping" style of the French. Could you tell me or list some past events that the French did to create mistrust among the Europeans?
March 21st, 2005  
KC72
 
 
NO! NO! NO!
March 21st, 2005  
Pierrot
 
YES! YES! YES!
March 22nd, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 

Topic: Re: Got a question...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobies
13th, I am not too familiar with "party pooping" style of the French. Could you tell me or list some past events that the French did to create mistrust among the Europeans?
It's not really a multiple set of problems rather it was a BIG single problem. When NATO wanted to organize itself, it wanted members to be absolute about the defense of Europe. Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, etc etc. were all in. The French however, despite America going in to Vietnam to convince the French to join NATO became a bit of "voluntary" members, meaning that during a time of war, they "might" come to the rescue. This meant that in a coordinated defense of Europe, while every other member did their bit, France would be doing its own thing.
That's what I mean.
I'm sure there's more, but this was probably the biggest one.
Basically could be seen as another case of everyone else sweating their butts off, the French benefitting and yet not really contributing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabal
There are still widening cracks between the French and German Politicians, although differences are to be put aside.
Well that is the hard part isn't it?
Well since you're German why don't you tell us more about this issue? Though I've been to Europe frequently enough to have even the immigration official here think I've lived in Germany for a few years ( ) I wouldn't have the COMPLETE exposure to it that a native would.
March 22nd, 2005  
Doppleganger
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I think the bigger question there is does NATO have a future, I dont think it has personally I think it will be replaced by the EDF.

I doubt they will have the same weapons either but I fully expect them to arm themselves with equipment that follows "European" guide lines ie can use the same ammunition.

Quote:
But the UK wants the JSF and will get it, while the rest of Europe won't.
Yes but really does Britain have a place in the "new" Europe, they seem luke warm on it at best and that feeling seems to be shared by the rest of Europe toward Britain, I really don't see Britain going a lot further down the European road.
We as a nation are very sceptical about further European integration. We also do not want to lose our special relationship with the US, nor have our strong economy comprised by having to abandon Sterling and adopt the Euro. The main drivers for further European integration appear to be the Franco-German alliance. There appears to be a lot of British distrust towards either nation but in particular the French. Many people in the UK have the impression that France will always be for France first and Europe second. Nothing wrong with that but it hardly bodes well for a US of Europe when those mistrusts and beliefs still exist. In any case, the UK will have to decide at some point to adopt the Euro and go down the European path or become isolated.
March 22nd, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Ah...


Thanks, 13th and Dopp. Now I wish Frenchmen can speak their minds on this issue.
March 22nd, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
We as a nation are very sceptical about further European integration. We also do not want to lose our special relationship with the US, nor have our strong economy comprised by having to abandon Sterling and adopt the Euro. The main drivers for further European integration appear to be the Franco-German alliance. There appears to be a lot of British distrust towards either nation but in particular the French. Many people in the UK have the impression that France will always be for France first and Europe second. Nothing wrong with that but it hardly bodes well for a US of Europe when those mistrusts and beliefs still exist. In any case, the UK will have to decide at some point to adopt the Euro and go down the European path or become isolated.
I dont think it matters which way Britain goes the future of European "strength" both economically and militarily will come from Germany, Russia and France.

Quote:
Many people in the UK have the impression that France will always be for France first and Europe second. Nothing wrong with that but it hardly bodes well for a US of Europe when those mistrusts and beliefs still exist.
I dont entirely agree, I think all nations within Europe will continue to put theirs first which is only natural it is also why I believe that any European parliament will only ever be for coordinating the european states and not ruling them.