UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - Page 9




 
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Boots
 
March 10th, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
stauro, the anti-communst mindset hadn't found its place in power yet. You have to remember the governments change over time as do everything else.
March 10th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Actually there were non US Goverment supported Americans in Spain. As well as Canucks, Brit's etc.. They were memembers of the 15th International Brigade the US formation was the A. Lincoln Bn. Of course they fought against Franco so..........................................
Some times you say that US need to use all kinds of of methods to stop communism advance, like in nicaragua, Chila, Guatemala, Korea, Vietnam..... What made Spain different? May be because WWII would have started 3 years earlier?

The Lusitania example was just for make you see that US was not that isolated 21 years before the spanish cival war began....
Okay lets clarify some things so I understand stand what time period your talking about, as you seem to be bouncing hither and yon thru history in an attempt to make some type of point.

When your talking about Nicaragua, Guatemala are you speaking of the 1920's and the Banana Wars? Or the post WWII era?

Chile are you speaking about the US's support of Pinochet? or something else?
Since Korea and Vietnam occured after the 2nd World War and the rise of the communist bloc they have little bearing on the reasons that the US did not assist a Fascist Rebellion in Spain in the 1930's.

13th as put it best the Anti Communist mind set did not become ingrained until post WWII. And the US was isolationist at the time.I also believe that many people saw Marxists as the lesser of two evils.

I'm still trying to figure out how the Lusitana has any bearing on support or lack there of in the Spanish Civil War.
March 10th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Actually there were non US Goverment supported Americans in Spain. As well as Canucks, Brit's etc.. They were memembers of the 15th International Brigade the US formation was the A. Lincoln Bn. Of course they fought against Franco so..........................................
Some times you say that US need to use all kinds of of methods to stop communism advance, like in nicaragua, Chila, Guatemala, Korea, Vietnam..... What made Spain different? May be because WWII would have started 3 years earlier?

The Lusitania example was just for make you see that US was not that isolated 21 years before the spanish cival war began....
Okay lets clarify some things so I understand stand what time period your talking about, as you seem to be bouncing hither and yon thru history in an attempt to make some type of point.

When your talking about Nicaragua, Guatemala are you speaking of the 1920's and the Banana Wars? Or the post WWII era?

Chile are you speaking about the US's support of Pinochet? or something else?
Since Korea and Vietnam occured after the 2nd World War and the rise of the communist bloc they have little bearing on the reasons that the US did not assist a Fascist Rebellion in Spain in the 1930's.

13th as put it best the Anti Communist mind set did not become ingrained until post WWII. And the US was isolationist at the time.I also believe that many people saw Marxists as the lesser of two evils.

I'm still trying to figure out how the Lusitana has any bearing on support or lack there of in the Spanish Civil War.

I understand what you are saying, i have been mixing many historical periods...My point was this:The US anticomunist policy is known by all of us, this policy began only after WWII.Why? ( I ask because I do not know...just wanna informate my self) Is known by everybody that Lennin was a really awful guy, he killed millions of people in the sibenian´s concentration camps....so, why this policy began only after WWII???

About the Lusitania: I did not relationated with spanish civil war; some guy told that US was very isolated in the 30s;but in the 15s was not isolated at all, US was sending weapons to GB...,so, they were isolated in the 30s but not in the 15s?? It is incredible how fast US policy changes!!

I hope my point is clear I have dificulties to express my self....
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Boots
March 10th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Because until the late 1940's Communism was pretty much isolated to the Soviet Union as a form of Goverment. Stalin exported Communism to all the Soviet Occupied areas - Eastern Europe and provided assistance to Mao in China and Kim in North Korea. He also crushed any resistance to his puppet goverments and ignored the requests of his former allies US, UK, and France to allow nations to establish Self Goverment outside the orbit of the Kremlin. The Berlin Blockade and subsequent Air Lift is a prime example of this.

As far as the US was concerned in the scope of things Stalin and later leaders of the USSR were bent on World Domination at the expense of freedom. The US became involved in Central and South American Guerrilla Wars because Castro and his henchman El Che were exporting Communism to the back door of the US with the support of the USSR.
March 10th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
okey, thank you for the aclaration! With my comments about Franco I was just trying to make you see that in Spain we saw the dark side of comunism may be before than other countries(of course with the exception of USSR).I do not like any kind of dictatorship, but with an historical perspective may be it was better that Franco won. We got a Constitucion science 1978. If the comunist would have won, we will probably be right now in the same situation as all the countries that were under the soviet domination.......
March 10th, 2005  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
I do not like any kind of dictatorship, but with an historical perspective may be it was better that Franco won. We got a Constitucion science 1978. If the comunist would have won, we will probably be right now in the same situation as all the countries that were under the soviet domination.......
There you go, so in actuality Spain owes its good future situation to the USA since you said it help to support Franco against Communism.

Not only that Spain owes its democracy to the USA, since without it the Communist would have dominated Europe.

...So what's the big idea always trying to find silly lame excuses to put down the USA.
March 10th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
"Some guys said that US were very isolated at that time, well, they joined the WWI,because a german submarine sunk the Lusitania, well you should know that Ironically, the U-boat was originally intended as a defensive craft."

Incorrect again. The US did not declare war on the Central Powers in WWI because of the sinking of the Lusitania. It certainly did add to the ill feelings, but the Lusitania was sunk 2 years before the US went to war. We declared war because of the Zimmerman Telegram. The German embassy sent a telegram to Mexico offering the return of Texas, California, New Mexico and Arizona if they would join the war on their side and fight the US. We took this as intent to declare war on us and meddling with our neighbor to cause a war on our doorstep.

Also if your intention was to show us that the US wasn't isolationist earlier than the WWII era, you've failed in your research yet again. It was precicely _because_ of WWI that we became so deadset on isolationism. We saw Europe as just an unending quagmire of wars over issues that lost American lives to no gain for the peace of the world. It was only WWII that awakened us to the fact that we must play a part in world affairs.
March 10th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
I do not like any kind of dictatorship, but with an historical perspective may be it was better that Franco won. We got a Constitucion science 1978. If the comunist would have won, we will probably be right now in the same situation as all the countries that were under the soviet domination.......
There you go, so in actuality Spain owes its good future situation to the USA since you said it help to support Franco against Communism.

Not only that Spain owes its democracy to the USA, since without it the Communist would have dominated Europe.

...So what's the big idea always trying to find silly lame excuses to put down the USA.
US did not help Franco to win comunism,he did with Hitler & Mussolinni help. US supported Franco once he won the war, and basically in the 50s. I do not know if there was a big risk of comunism coming back.

Spanish democracy is not due to US help. Actually Franco wanted his regimen to become into a democracy, and that is the only reason in spanish democracy, US has nothing to do with it
March 10th, 2005  
Guaripa
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Actually there were non US Goverment supported Americans in Spain. As well as Canucks, Brit's etc.. They were memembers of the 15th International Brigade the US formation was the A. Lincoln Bn. Of course they fought against Franco so..........................................
I.E. The Communist !!
March 10th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge_7
"Some guys said that US were very isolated at that time, well, they joined the WWI,because a german submarine sunk the Lusitania, well you should know that Ironically, the U-boat was originally intended as a defensive craft."

Incorrect again. The US did not declare war on the Central Powers in WWI because of the sinking of the Lusitania. It certainly did add to the ill feelings, but the Lusitania was sunk 2 years before the US went to war. We declared war because of the Zimmerman Telegram. The German embassy sent a telegram to Mexico offering the return of Texas, California, New Mexico and Arizona if they would join the war on their side and fight the US. We took this as intent to declare war on us and meddling with our neighbor to cause a war on our doorstep.

Also if your intention was to show us that the US wasn't isolationist earlier than the WWII era, you've failed in your research yet again. It was precicely _because_ of WWI that we became so deadset on isolationism. We saw Europe as just an unending quagmire of wars over issues that lost American lives to no gain for the peace of the world. It was only WWII that awakened us to the fact that we must play a part in world affairs.
I did not fail. The Lusitania was full of weapons for the british. US were not that isolated... why sending weapons for GB then?? I did not say anywhere that US declared war to germany because of Lusitania incident, read my post again.