UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - Page 7




 
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Boots
 
March 7th, 2005  
Guaripa
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnderSafe
Quote:
The USA is certainly democratic, but its just a trivial arguement debating the meaning and application of the term Democracy in context in a literal or general sense.
Those silly and trivial founding fathers.

And let us not forget that silly and trivial piece of paper we call a Constitution.

The Electoral College shows exactly how trivial it is to debate whether or not the US is a Republic or a democracy.

You can argue and attempt to justify the US as a democracy all day long but it won't change the facts, sorry lads.

Thank You !
I lost how many times we changed the electoral College to benefit the Democracy !!
March 7th, 2005  
Guaripa
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberjack
i am in canada, probably one the most FREE nations on earth,

yet i can do nothing when my provincial government decides to rise tax and cut social programs....the only thing i can do is to wait for 3 more years and vote off that government, than another party comes up and make some decisions i will suffer from again, and i will continue to wait..


am i free?
Dont forget the Security Certificates done in the middle of the night by the star chamber, you have no say so in the proceedings.
March 7th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaripa

Dont forget the Security Certificates done in the middle of the night by the star chamber, you have no say so in the proceedings.
Which Star Chamber are you refering too? The one in Tudor England abolished in 1641? Or the one rumored (by conspiracy whack jobs) to have been reinvented by Blair and Bush?
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Boots
March 8th, 2005  
lumberjack
 
well, things go both ways,

i like the Martin's decision to refuse to join the U.S missile defence stuff
March 9th, 2005  
Lupos
 
 
Alright, first, there is no need for human rights in a democracy. Rome and Greece were two of the first two nations to enact democracy, but human rights abuses happened there in the Colliseums and with slavery. Freedom of expression is neccessary, unless you propose Saddham ran a democracy in Iraq. They voted. Sure, they had a gun pointed to the back of their head but they voted. I also wanted to point out that even though all the current nations accepted the Geneva Convention, how many do you think actually practice it? Not many I am sure. The UN is not about human rights, their point is to be a middle ground. Hell, they are really not even about what is right, they are about preventing wars and that is it. On top of this, US policy changes at most every 8 years. Not every president is a good one, Carter not giving the Shah any support in Iran played a role in the coming of the Mulahs. Reagen inherited the mess Carter made and had no choice but to back Saddham in the Iraq/Iran War. Remember, we were up against the Soviet empire so we had to take what we could get. Saddham betrayed us later on, like Stalin did after WWII.
March 9th, 2005  
Damien435
 
 
Like I said before, America is not a direct-democracy, it is a representative-democracy, we elect representatives to represent us in Congress, State Legislatures and local governments. Seems to me like many of the arguments about America not being a democracy are based on one thing, the Electoral College, why? That is one office, that one office upsets the thousands of other offices in which the people elect their representatives through popular vote? If you really want to sound intelligent you would talk about how gerrymandering is doing far more to ruin American democracy than the Electoral College. For instance, in Texas the Republicans re-arranged the districts to target 5 Democratic Congressmen and also put two incumbents into one district, 4 out of these 5 democrats were defeated.

Once again, the United States supported both sides in the Iran-Iraq War, remember a little thing called the Iran/Contra scandal?

Iran-Contra Affair
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
In the Iran-Contra Affair, United States President Ronald Reagan's administration secretly sold arms to Iran, which was engaged in a bloody war with its neighbor Iraq from 1980 to 1988 (see Iran-Iraq War), and diverted the proceeds to the Contra rebels fighting to overthrow the leftist and Sandinista government of Nicaragua. Those sales thus had a dual goal: appeasing Iran, which had influence with militant groups that held several American hostages in Lebanon and supported bombings in Western European countries, and funding a guerrilla war aimed at toppling the Pro-Communist Nicaraguan government backed by Cuba and the Soviet Union.

Both transactions were contrary to acts of Congress, which prohibited the funding of the Contras and the sale of weapons to Iran. In addition, both activities violated UN sanctions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair
March 9th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupos
Alright, first, there is no need for human rights in a democracy. Rome and Greece were two of the first two nations to enact democracy, but human rights abuses happened there in the Colliseums and with slavery. Freedom of expression is neccessary, unless you propose Saddham ran a democracy in Iraq. They voted. Sure, they had a gun pointed to the back of their head but they voted. I also wanted to point out that even though all the current nations accepted the Geneva Convention, how many do you think actually practice it? Not many I am sure. The UN is not about human rights, their point is to be a middle ground. h**l, they are really not even about what is right, they are about preventing wars and that is it. On top of this, US policy changes at most every 8 years. Not every president is a good one, Carter not giving the Shah any support in Iran played a role in the coming of the Mulahs. Reagen inherited the mess Carter made and had no choice but to back Saddham in the Iraq/Iran War. Remember, we were up against the Soviet empire so we had to take what we could get. Saddham betrayed us later on, like Stalin did after WWII.
First, you can not compare the greek democracy with the US democracy. It was a democracy in its historical context, not now!!Democracy is a developing concept!! A politic sistem where Human rights are not respected is not a real democracy!!

About the GC: the fact that countries do not respect it means that is bad or that we should eliminate it? When a US soldier is catch same where I guess that you want a dignity tratement for him, do you? In the line of your argument: no body respects speed limits, should we let drivers drive 250 km/h??? it is just an example....

UN has a lot to do with Human rights: PLEASE READ THIS:

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html


About CIA working in Iran(AJAX OPERATION):by the summer of 1953, the British and American governments initiated a joint Anglo-American plan for the covert overthrow of Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh, the Prime Minister of Iran. The plan called Operation AJAX with Kermit Roosevelt, the CIA Mideast Agent in charge (a grandson of Theodore Roosevelt and a distant cousin of Franklin Delano Roosevelt). "So this is how we will get rid of the madman Mossadeq in Iran" announced John Foster Dulles to a group of top Washington policy makers in June 1953. The U.S. Secretary of State held in his hand a plan of operation to overthrow the Prime Minister of Iran. There was scarcely any discussions amongst the high powered men in the room, no probing questions and no legal or ethical issues raised.

PLEASE READ: http://www.nytimes.com/library/world...cia-index.html


To finish: Are you stranged that Stalin betrayed US??? He just wanted to expand comunism all over the world. Do not tell that yopu did not know that Stalin was a bad guy. His antecesor Lennin was as criminal as him. Both of them killed over 40 million russians.
March 9th, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
I think a lot of people saw the cold war coming before World War II even ended.
March 9th, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
This thread fed me up, guys.
March 9th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
I think a lot of people saw the cold war coming before World War II even ended.
Do you mean FDR & W.Churchill?? I donīt think they would have made an alliance with Stalin if they knew that he was gonna kill over 40 million russians and spred comunism all over the world....