UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

RnderSafe said:
The USA is certainly democratic, but its just a trivial arguement debating the meaning and application of the term Democracy in context in a literal or general sense.
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Those silly and trivial founding fathers.

And let us not forget that silly and trivial piece of paper we call a Constitution.

The Electoral College shows exactly how trivial it is to debate whether or not the US is a Republic or a democracy.

You can argue and attempt to justify the US as a democracy all day long but it won't change the facts, sorry lads.
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Thank You !
I lost how many times we changed the electoral College to benefit the Democracy !!
 
lumberjack said:
i am in canada, probably one the most FREE nations on earth,

yet i can do nothing when my provincial government decides to rise tax and cut social programs....the only thing i can do is to wait for 3 more years and vote off that government, than another party comes up and make some decisions i will suffer from again, and i will continue to wait..


am i free?
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Dont forget the Security Certificates done in the middle of the night by the star chamber, you have no say so in the proceedings.
 
Guaripa said:
Dont forget the Security Certificates done in the middle of the night by the star chamber, you have no say so in the proceedings.
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Which Star Chamber are you refering too? The one in Tudor England abolished in 1641? Or the one rumored (by conspiracy whack jobs) to have been reinvented by Blair and Bush?
 
Alright, first, there is no need for human rights in a democracy. Rome and Greece were two of the first two nations to enact democracy, but human rights abuses happened there in the Colliseums and with slavery. Freedom of expression is neccessary, unless you propose Saddham ran a democracy in Iraq. They voted. Sure, they had a gun pointed to the back of their head but they voted. I also wanted to point out that even though all the current nations accepted the Geneva Convention, how many do you think actually practice it? Not many I am sure. The UN is not about human rights, their point is to be a middle ground. Hell, they are really not even about what is right, they are about preventing wars and that is it. On top of this, US policy changes at most every 8 years. Not every president is a good one, Carter not giving the Shah any support in Iran played a role in the coming of the Mulahs. Reagen inherited the mess Carter made and had no choice but to back Saddham in the Iraq/Iran War. Remember, we were up against the Soviet empire so we had to take what we could get. Saddham betrayed us later on, like Stalin did after WWII.
 
Like I said before, America is not a direct-democracy, it is a representative-democracy, we elect representatives to represent us in Congress, State Legislatures and local governments. Seems to me like many of the arguments about America not being a democracy are based on one thing, the Electoral College, why? That is one office, that one office upsets the thousands of other offices in which the people elect their representatives through popular vote? If you really want to sound intelligent you would talk about how gerrymandering is doing far more to ruin American democracy than the Electoral College. For instance, in Texas the Republicans re-arranged the districts to target 5 Democratic Congressmen and also put two incumbents into one district, 4 out of these 5 democrats were defeated.

Once again, the United States supported both sides in the Iran-Iraq War, remember a little thing called the Iran/Contra scandal?

Iran-Contra Affair
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
In the Iran-Contra Affair, United States President Ronald Reagan's administration secretly sold arms to Iran, which was engaged in a bloody war with its neighbor Iraq from 1980 to 1988 (see Iran-Iraq War), and diverted the proceeds to the Contra rebels fighting to overthrow the leftist and Sandinista government of Nicaragua. Those sales thus had a dual goal: appeasing Iran, which had influence with militant groups that held several American hostages in Lebanon and supported bombings in Western European countries, and funding a guerrilla war aimed at toppling the Pro-Communist Nicaraguan government backed by Cuba and the Soviet Union.

Both transactions were contrary to acts of Congress, which prohibited the funding of the Contras and the sale of weapons to Iran. In addition, both activities violated UN sanctions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair
 
Lupos said:
Alright, first, there is no need for human rights in a democracy. Rome and Greece were two of the first two nations to enact democracy, but human rights abuses happened there in the Colliseums and with slavery. Freedom of expression is neccessary, unless you propose Saddham ran a democracy in Iraq. They voted. Sure, they had a gun pointed to the back of their head but they voted. I also wanted to point out that even though all the current nations accepted the Geneva Convention, how many do you think actually practice it? Not many I am sure. The UN is not about human rights, their point is to be a middle ground. h**l, they are really not even about what is right, they are about preventing wars and that is it. On top of this, US policy changes at most every 8 years. Not every president is a good one, Carter not giving the Shah any support in Iran played a role in the coming of the Mulahs. Reagen inherited the mess Carter made and had no choice but to back Saddham in the Iraq/Iran War. Remember, we were up against the Soviet empire so we had to take what we could get. Saddham betrayed us later on, like Stalin did after WWII.
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First, you can not compare the greek democracy with the US democracy. It was a democracy in its historical context, not now!!Democracy is a developing concept!! A politic sistem where Human rights are not respected is not a real democracy!! :roll:

About the GC: the fact that countries do not respect it means that is bad or that we should eliminate it? When a US soldier is catch same where I guess that you want a dignity tratement for him, do you? In the line of your argument: no body respects speed limits, should we let drivers drive 250 km/h??? it is just an example....

UN has a lot to do with Human rights: PLEASE READ THIS:

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html


About CIA working in Iran(AJAX OPERATION):by the summer of 1953, the British and American governments initiated a joint Anglo-American plan for the covert overthrow of Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh, the Prime Minister of Iran. The plan called Operation AJAX with Kermit Roosevelt, the CIA Mideast Agent in charge (a grandson of Theodore Roosevelt and a distant cousin of Franklin Delano Roosevelt). "So this is how we will get rid of the madman Mossadeq in Iran" announced John Foster Dulles to a group of top Washington policy makers in June 1953. The U.S. Secretary of State held in his hand a plan of operation to overthrow the Prime Minister of Iran. There was scarcely any discussions amongst the high powered men in the room, no probing questions and no legal or ethical issues raised.

PLEASE READ: http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html


To finish: Are you stranged that Stalin betrayed US??? :roll: He just wanted to expand comunism all over the world. Do not tell that yopu did not know that Stalin was a bad guy. His antecesor Lennin was as criminal as him. Both of them killed over 40 million russians.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
I think a lot of people saw the cold war coming before World War II even ended.
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Do you mean FDR & W.Churchill?? I don´t think they would have made an alliance with Stalin if they knew that he was gonna kill over 40 million russians and spred comunism all over the world....
 
You know nothing about Churchill then. He was one of the strongest anti-Communsit advocates.
The alliance was neccessary to beat the Nazis, that was really it. That was the only reason for siding with the Soviets.
You have to remember, allies do not mean friends. People make this mistake all the time, thinking that a political alliance means that the two like each other. This is not always true.
America needed to beat the Nazis. The USSR was important in that objective.
It's not hypocracy. It's just something pretty common.
Why don't you learn something about the topic before posting? Anyone who knew the slightest about Winston Churchill would have never made the statement you made.
 
Well, answer this then, why didn´t they help Franco to win Comunism in Spain and avoid over 1 million deads??
You are going to say that the Spanish Republic was a Democratic elected political sistem, and is partially true. It was until comunist and anarchist won power in the goverment and supplant the real one.Then the revolution began.....
 
Churchill wasn't in power then.
It was pretty much the same folks who were in favor of appeasement etc.
Again do your research.
 
And the US was very isolationist at that time. We didn't even want to go to war to help _Britain_ a couple years later and we are their decendants! So why would we go to Spain, for crying out loud? I'll echo 13th Redneck. Do your research before you post! You've made glaring error after glaring error. Not that anybody's paying you much attention now, but before much longer nobody will reply to you at all if you can't even research what is common knowledge to many of us.
 
Actually there were non US Goverment supported Americans in Spain. As well as Canucks, Brit's etc.. They were memembers of the 15th International Brigade the US formation was the A. Lincoln Bn. Of course they fought against Franco so..........................................
 
Italian Guy said:
Yeah that's right. Stauroflakes do some research, man.
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with my post i was trying to say that if US & GB were so worried about comunism may be they should have made something to avoid the expansion of comunism is Spain instead of helping them and also avoid 1 million deads. Some guys said that US were very isolated at that time, well, they joined the WWI,because a german submarine sunk the Lusitania, well you should know that Ironically, the U-boat was originally intended as a defensive craft. It was only mobilized offensively in response to the British blockade. The first expression of the German U-boat's offensive power was the sinking of the Lusitania in May, 1915. The Germans had placed numerous newspaper ads warning Americans not to travel aboard the Lusitania, which was carrying munitions but masquerading as an ocean liner. Americans still believed in their right, as members of a neutral nation, to travel unharmed. Of the 1,153 passengers on the Lusitania, 118 Americans died; President Wilson therefore warned the Germans that another aggressive act would provoke the United States to war. This warning inhibited the German Navy for almost two years, until the German Navy ceased to consider the United States an immediate threat. The German Navy began to claim that, with unrestricted submarine warfare, they could force the British to surrender in six months. The experts calculated that it would take the United States at least a year to mobilize, and by that time, the British surrender would be complete. The Germans were willing to risk American intervention because they were confident they could secure Britain. The German plan seemed to be an early success; however, with the intervention of America's strong navy and the implementation of the convoy (a group of cargo-ships protected by a large number of warships) the United States neutralized the German U-boat. Germany had gambled and lost.


If you are trying to offend with the stereoflakes thing....you might try something better, but i have to tell you that with the last word of your nickname it is easy to make funny and easy jokes :lol:
 
03USMC said:
Actually there were non US Goverment supported Americans in Spain. As well as Canucks, Brit's etc.. They were memembers of the 15th International Brigade the US formation was the A. Lincoln Bn. Of course they fought against Franco so..........................................
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Some times you say that US need to use all kinds of of methods to stop comunism advance, like in nicaragua, Chila, Guatemala, Korea, Vietnam..... What made Spain different? May be because WWII would have started 3 years earlier?

The Lusitania example was just for make you see that US was not that isolated 21 years before the spanish cival war began....
 
staurofilakes said:
with my post i was trying to say that if US & GB were so worried about comunism may be they should have made something to avoid the expansion of comunism is Spain instead of helping them and also avoid 1 million deads. Some guys said that US were very isolated at that time, well, they joined the WWI,because a german submarine sunk the Lusitania, well you should know that Ironically, the U-boat was originally intended as a defensive craft. It was only mobilized offensively in response to the British blockade. The first expression of the German U-boat's offensive power was the sinking of the Lusitania in May, 1915. The Germans had placed numerous newspaper ads warning Americans not to travel aboard the Lusitania, which was carrying munitions but masquerading as an ocean liner. Americans still believed in their right, as members of a neutral nation, to travel unharmed. Of the 1,153 passengers on the Lusitania, 118 Americans died; President Wilson therefore warned the Germans that another aggressive act would provoke the United States to war. This warning inhibited the German Navy for almost two years, until the German Navy ceased to consider the United States an immediate threat. The German Navy began to claim that, with unrestricted submarine warfare, they could force the British to surrender in six months. The experts calculated that it would take the United States at least a year to mobilize, and by that time, the British surrender would be complete. The Germans were willing to risk American intervention because they were confident they could secure Britain. The German plan seemed to be an early success; however, with the intervention of America's strong navy and the implementation of the convoy (a group of cargo-ships protected by a large number of warships) the United States neutralized the German U-boat. Germany had gambled and lost.


If you are trying to offend with the stereoflakes thing....you might try something better, but i have to tell you that with the last word of your nickname it is easy to make funny and easy jokes :lol:
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Have you ever heard of stream of conciousness writing?


And there will be no attempts to creat insulting nicknames by anyone for anyone else.
 
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