UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
March 2nd, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 

Topic: Re: reply


Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
We all know what the spanish did with south american natives. It was awful; but it happend 400 years ago!!!! But I repeat what I said before, Spain was not a democracy. During the Norther American natives genocide US was a democracy, you had a Constitucion, with civil rights and many more....i guess that not for the indians. Otherwise, I think that the genocide continued untill the beginnings of XX century

hope to ear from you soon
Happy to respond to that. First of all, Democracy isn't perfect and the American treatment of Native Americans is a perfect example. The majority of Americans favored policies of driving them off their land because European Americans wanted it for themselves. The majority of them were racist and believed that "Indians" were a bunch of filthy savages with little or no redeeming qualities. Most that didn't believe things to that extreme, generally believed a lesser version of the same things. With that sort of prejudice in the minds of your voters ... you can see where it goes from there.

That is Why it happened, but there is not excuse for it and I will offer none.


Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
You say that the Indians are happy in their reserves....i do not think so....... their life stile did not have much to do with the one they have now.....
The problem with this statement is that I never said that. My points were:
1.) They are not trapped there. Your statements made it sound like they were. They can choose to live there or not, but it is their choice. Whichever way they go, they are American citizens with all the same rights as anyone else in this country.
2.) Reservations are supposed to be a place where they can preserve and practice their culture. That isn't how it plays out of course, but they have the option to do what they like within limits.
3.) Reservations haven't really help Native Americans and have probably led them into a cycle of not bothering to help themselves. Its a bit like a Welfare System, sometimes you do a person no favors by giving them handouts. America is the land of opportunity but you have to take the opportunity. The way Reservations are run has led many to not bother trying to excel.
4.) The fact that they are exempted from many state and some federal laws has worked to their benefit in many instances. Opening Casinos in States the do not allow gambling, etc. Additionally, the government from way back when handed them some really crappy land. Later on, they struck oil. So in some cases, it has worked to their benefit.
March 2nd, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
"Not true, the LATVIANS did not do anything in istory that is bad...or good...or matters"

Uh perhaps you've forgotten WWII? They sold out the Jews there pretty fast. Teutonic Knights also had headquarters there in the Middle Ages. Your country is no more clean than any other.

"The US govt takes decisions based on its national goal and intrest. These policies may or may not be liked by other countries. But then it is these national policies that allow the US to obtain oil at much cheaper rates than otehr countries. Oil is what drives the industries of the world. It is no wonder that in the US a gallon of petrol cost between $2 to $2.25 and in some parts of Texas it is less than $2.00 per gallon, while most of us pay close to $3.50 or $3.80 per gallon of petrol."

And every other nation makes decisions based on _their_ goals and interests. The US having cheaper rates is due to two reasons. We have the refining technology and our government doesn't take the huge cut from the production pricing that other nations do. If you don't like your prices I suggest you take it up with New Delhi. OPEC sets an international price. The US doesn't get any better price than any other nation.
March 2nd, 2005  
USAFAUX2004
 
 
Well as a nation not accupied by some one else what did latvia do as an independent?
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Boots
March 3rd, 2005  
RnderSafe
 
 
Your first mistake is assuming the United States is a democracy, it isn't.

US is a Republic and always has been.
March 3rd, 2005  
EagleZtrike
 
 
Hey what can you say? GREAT COUNTRY USA USA
March 3rd, 2005  
Damien435
 
 

Topic: Re: UNITES STATES OF AMERICA


Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
First of all, I do not have any thing against the US citizens, I think US is a great country where different cultures can live together, BUT I can not say the same about the external politics of the US Administration in the last decades:

a) During the cold war US supported or helped to rich the power to different kinds of dictator ships, for example the US administration supported the General Francosīs regime in Spain to dificult the advance of comunism in Europe after WW II, this is one of the reason why spanish people do not like US; the CIA helped Augusto Pinochet to destroy the legal goverment of Allende; the US army trained many paramilitar groups in south america to fight against the socialist movements that were incrising his power in south and central america, I am talking about Panama, Nicaragua...
Our goal was to stop the spread of communism using any means necessary, if we had to choose the lesser of two evils so be it, and not all dictators are bad.

Quote:
b) Other thing is the HIPOCRESY of the US Administration, I will explain my self: we all agree that Sadam Hussein was a really bad guy, he killed his own people, the Kurds and the political oposition and he had MDWs; BUT he was even more bad when the US supported him during the war agaist IRAN, the US gived him weapons, militar asistance, money...., he was not bad then???? The thing is that the US was interested in stopping the advance of Iranīs Mulahs.... Before The Mulahīs got the power in lates 70īs US also supportes the SHA dictator ship, remember? Politicians are so hipocrit....
I suppose it was hypocritical that we also supported Iran in the Iran/Iraq war.

Quote:
c) About tha Afganistan war..., The talibans in year 2000 were the same that reach the power after the support that was given to them by the US to win to the Rusians. US gived the weapons, militar training, money..... They were a product of CIA policy. US said that they were attacked because they were responsible of 11-S massacre, BUT we all Know that this attack was made by arabian saudi citizens... a country wich is a friend of the US, why donīt attack arabia saudi then??
Because then the number of terrorists would increase ten fold, a nuclear attack on US soil is all but innevitable, and then we lose our third largest supplier of foreign oil. What is so bad about going to war or not going to war to protect a country's ability to defend itself?

Quote:
d) Some guys began to compare the US empire today with the spanish empire in XV-XVIII century, well, this does not make any sense, why? Okey, the spanish empiry was not a democracy, the US is a democracy since the XVIII century(many will say that it began to be a democracy later:see the slaves;and all the problems you had with civil rights in the 50īs...); in that century(XVIII) another genocide was taking place in the US, I am talking about the genocide of THE REAL AMERICANS: SIOUX, APACHES, CHEROOKES AND MANY OTHERS that were massacred and sended to Reserves(concentration camps??) were they are being destroyed by alcohol and drugs..... And all this happended while the US was considered the biggest democracy in the world
There is no such thing as real Americans, even the "Native Americans" emigrated to the Americas tens of thousands of years ago, either over the Berring Land Bridge or via the Pacific Ocean. And before we talk about American Genocide of the "Indians" Let's look at the depopulation of the Mesoamericas following the Spanish conquests. "Historians disagree on the total New World population at the time of Contact. The highest estimates are around 80 million. The most convincing estimates are between 20-30 million. Regardless, by the end of the 16th century, credible estimates put a survivor population at just over 1 million." So, most estimates agree that as a result of diseases brought to the New World by Spanish forces, anywhere from 19-29 million people died. Also "Hispanola (modern Haiti and the Dominican Republic) were the first site of European contact. Exposure to smallpox during early Spanish attempts to convert the population into plantation slavery exterminated all 2.5 million inhabitants. They were replaced by African slaves, and this process was repeated throughout the New World for decades to varying degrees." And the there is a reason why the Reservations in America are some of the worst lands in the country, they are meant to force the "Native Americans" to move into urban areas and be assimilated into mainstream American culture. And today tribal matters on Reservations are exactly that, tribal. The Federal Government has a hands off approach when handling the people on the Reservations, sort of, they get welfare checks everymonth, free housing, free phones, power, cable, basically they get a new house with all the basics and then some. I was talking to some contractors, their company was hired to build houses on the Reservations, they build and furnished the houses, winter set in and they had to wait three months, when they got back the house were trashed. All the appliances had been sold, some houses were just destroyed, yes Reservations are essentially a third world country right in the heart of America, but all the blame does not go to the American Government, corruption is rampant in these tribal governments, my aunt and uncle were robbed by the son of a chief up in Cass Country, but they technically live on reservation lands and the tribal government did nothing. One brightside for the Tribes is that in most states only the tribes are allowed to own and operate Casino's, which is a huge source of income in America.


Quote:
I hope no one get offended because of my ideas, I think this is the good thing of a forum, express what you think and if you think I am not right just have a polite discusion.

I love your forum!!
As you will soon learn here, it is impossible to say anything on this forum without somebody getting offended because we have such diverse membership, something that may not be offensive in your country can be quite offensive to someone from another country. (Like you accusing the US of Genocide.)

Afganhistan
The US has never in anyway supported the Taliban or Al Qaeda, both organizations were founded after the Russians were expelled from Afganhistan. Al Qaeda was founded by Osama bin Laden, using funds he inhereted from his father (the bin Laden family is the second richest in Saudi Arabia) he set up Al Qaeda, after the US sent troops to defend Saudi Arabia from possible Iraqi invasion. Osama felt that Iraq was an Arab issue that should have been solved by the Arab nations, Osama felt that the Saudi's were weak for allowing this "intrusion by the infidels into the holy land." It was only after the Gulf War that Al Qaeda was founded, without any American Govt. involvement. The CIA trained Osama to fight the communists in Afganhistan, this is different from the CIA supporting the Taliban or Al Qaeda.

The Taliban was also founded after the Soviets were expelled. The Northern Alliance was backed by the US, but they were not very sensitive to the feelings of they people, they forced men to shave and did not allow women to be veiled in public, like many other government supported by teh US, they were the minority but they were kissing our asses so we helped them. The Taliban were liked by the majority of the people because of their strict adherence to Muslim Law. They in fact went to far in limiting women's rights, according to traditional Muslim Law women were allowed to own land, but not in Afganhistan.

More about these "Concentration Camps."
The "Indians" are not bound to stay on the Reservations, in the very early days of their creation they were but not anymore. And, the Constitution only applies to Americans, not Canadians, not Spaniards, not Russians, just Americans. At the time of these acts of "genocide" the "native americans" were not American citizens so the rights granted to all American citizens did not apply to them as they were not American Citizens.

Why do europeans keep trying to throw this 'genocide of the 'Indians'" in our faces? They were the ones who introduced diseases which ravaged the Americas and killed tens of millions. And if I remember correctly, europe has a pretty violent past. (ie Spanish and Roman Inquisitions, Pellyponesian wars, Punic Wars, WWI started in Europe, Napolean was a european, the Czars, and as was mentioned earlier, the Kings and Queens of Spain.
March 3rd, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
You are right, I shoul not have said that US supported the taliban, BUT they supported the fighters that after expulsing the soviets from afganistan become into the Talibanīs
March 3rd, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 

Topic: Re: us interest


Quote:
Originally Posted by stauroflakes
You also told me that i do not know what a democracy is, well, I am a law student, i could perfectly explain you what a democracy is
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
They already have a very priviliageted position in the security council with the other 6 big members: china, GB, France, rusia....
As you are a "Law student" you should know that UNSC permanent members are 5 in all, not the US + 6 as you said.
March 3rd, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
you are right, big mistake, but you can see that i wrote the name of the countries,
March 3rd, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
you are right, big mistake, but you can see that i wrote the name of the countries,
8)