UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - Page 10




 
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Boots
 
March 10th, 2005  
Guaripa
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaripa

Dont forget the Security Certificates done in the middle of the night by the star chamber, you have no say so in the proceedings.
Which Star Chamber are you refering too? The one in Tudor England abolished in 1641? Or the one rumored (by conspiracy whack jobs) to have been reinvented by Blair and Bush?
If you follow some of the cases in Canada on their Security Certificates (like our own Patriot Act)you can see what I mean by that, however I use the term as description of the example of Democracy turned Mobcracy.
March 10th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
What? The part where you say "well, they joined the WWI,because a german submarine sunk the Lusitania" hmm? You can't even get _yourself_ straight much less history.

You didn't read _my_ post. I wasn't argueing that we weren't isolationist in WWI. I was stating that it was _because_ of WWI that we took such a determined isolationist stance.
March 10th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaripa
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Actually there were non US Goverment supported Americans in Spain. As well as Canucks, Brit's etc.. They were memembers of the 15th International Brigade the US formation was the A. Lincoln Bn. Of course they fought against Franco so..........................................
I.E. The Communist !!

Yeah Private US citizens supported the Marxists. I was Pointing out that Americans were there but without Goverment Support. At the same time other Americans were attending American Bunde rallies and supporting Facisim and the Nazis.

Being a member of ethier faction became exteremly detrimental during WWII.
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Boots
March 10th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge_7
What? The part where you say "well, they joined the WWI,because a german submarine sunk the Lusitania" hmm? You can't even get _yourself_ straight much less history.

You didn't read _my_ post. I wasn't argueing that we weren't isolationist in WWI. I was stating that it was _because_ of WWI that we took such a determined isolationist stance.
as did many countries. after the horrors of wwI (the war to end all wars) there really was a belief that no one would want a return to combat on such a huge scale...therefore you saw isolationism and apeasment get their time in the sun,

we saw how that ended.
March 10th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Indeed, Chewie. Just as "no man is an island" neither is any nation. Borders and even oceans are no guarantee of safety from attack.
March 11th, 2005  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Spanish democracy is not due to US help. Actually Franco wanted his regimen to become into a democracy, and that is the only reason in spanish democracy, US has nothing to do with it
Spanish democracy has everything to do with the US.

If there were no USA the the USSR (or the Nazi's) would have dominated continental Europe, if not the world, therefore no Spanish democracy.

No USA, No Spanish democracy. Period.
March 11th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Spanish democracy is not due to US help. Actually Franco wanted his regimen to become into a democracy, and that is the only reason in spanish democracy, US has nothing to do with it
Spanish democracy has everything to do with the US.

If there were no USA the the USSR (or the Nazi's) would have dominated continental Europe, if not the world, therefore no Spanish democracy.

No USA, No Spanish democracy. Period.
So, all the democracies in the world are due to US......ummmmmmm May be you should ask to some guy from Honduras,Salvador,Guatemala,Nicaragua what they think of that. And do not tell me they live in a democracy now, because that will be really funny.
March 11th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
So, all the democracies in the world are due to US......ummmmmmm May be you should ask to some guy from Honduras,Salvador,Guatemala,Nicaragua what they think of that. And do not tell me they live in a democracy now, because that will be really funny.

While I don't agree with the "owing of democracy" statement as it's being made by Gladius. I'd like to know exactly what your reference to Central American Goverments has to do the current discussion.

Please enlighten us to the secerets you hold of the geopolitical situation in Latin America. Or are just throwing it out there again.
March 11th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
So, all the democracies in the world are due to US......ummmmmmm May be you should ask to some guy from Honduras,Salvador,Guatemala,Nicaragua what they think of that. And do not tell me they live in a democracy now, because that will be really funny.

While I don't agree with the "owing of democracy" statement as it's being made by Gladius. I'd like to know exactly what your reference to Central American Goverments has to do the current discussion.

Please enlighten us to the secerets you hold of the geopolitical situation in Latin America. Or are just throwing it out there again.
Sure, he said that all democracy in the world are due to US and that we should be happy of that. I guees he included the democracies of Central America where US put and removed dictatorships with total impunity, the thing is that I belive that in those countries real democracy does not exit...I guess they have to give thanks to the US...


I do not have any secrets about Latin America situation, I guess is well known by everybody, at least in Europe:

-Landowners that explotes peasants
-common people is really poor
-political inestability
-narcotrafic( the CIA helped Nicaraguan Contra rebels ship planeloads of cocaine into the US. In exchange for cocaine, the Contras got weapons to fight their war in Nicaragua.) http://nick.assumption.edu/WebVAX/ET...oc23Sep96.html


I do not say that all of this is due to US obviously....
March 11th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
So, all the democracies in the world are due to US......ummmmmmm May be you should ask to some guy from Honduras,Salvador,Guatemala,Nicaragua what they think of that. And do not tell me they live in a democracy now, because that will be really funny.

While I don't agree with the "owing of democracy" statement as it's being made by Gladius. I'd like to know exactly what your reference to Central American Goverments has to do the current discussion.

Please enlighten us to the secerets you hold of the geopolitical situation in Latin America. Or are just throwing it out there again.
Sure, he said that all democracy in the world are due to US and that we should be happy of that. I guees he included the democracies of Central America where US put and removed dictatorships with total impunity, the thing is that I belive that in those countries real democracy does not exit...I guess they have to give thanks to the US...


I do not have any secrets about Latin America situation, I guess is well known by everybody, at least in Europe:

-Landowners that explotes peasants
-common people is really poor
-political instability
-narcotrafic( the CIA helped Nicaraguan Contra rebels ship planeloads of cocaine into the US. In exchange for cocaine, the Contras got weapons to fight their war in Nicaragua.) http://nick.assumption.edu/WebVAX/ET...oc23Sep96.html


I do not say that all of this is due to US obviously....
Wow! Thats an old link! 1996. Those charges were pretty much debunked in that year too. The CIA did not traffic cocaine paid local assets of the CIA did. Manuel Noriega and others. But it was not done as a matter of policy or by the direction of their Handlers. The charges stem from the fact that Panama was the main conduit for arms to the Contras in Honduras. Noriega trafficked coca for profit not as a US asset.
Certain Contra leaders also were part of the Cali/Medillan pipeline in that they provided security for shipments and contracted out thru El Pina. But then again Ortega and the Sandinistas also provided air strips and security in Nicaragua also arranged by Noriega. The CIA, DIA, and DEA got painted with the brush because Noriega was a paid asset and they lost control of him.

The Exploitation of the "peasants" by land owners is not solely the fault of any US intervention in the region. It is almost a cultural thing. It started
with the colonization of Central, South and North America. The indigenous people were forced into labor by land owning European Colonists. When the Wars for Independence came about in the Early 1800's and the Spanish began to cede their colonies they issued Land Grants to the land owners the Revolutionary Goverments which contained Mestizos and Europeans recognized these land grants and continued the cycle of denying the lower classes many rights. This continued on into the 20th century take a look at the many Mexican Revolutions. Land rights often remained in the hands of the Gentry. As long as they backed the current Goverment. This is not to say that the US backing American business interests did not have a role, but it by no means begins and ends with the US.

The level of poverty in the region is due to many factors not just class. But also the nations ability to use their resources.

Political instability is the hallmark of all 3rd and 4th world countries. Due to the nature of their goverments and poverty levels. But lying it totally at the feet of the US is a cop out.