Unfit (Another overstepping of the UK Government)

[5.56X45mm]

Here’s yet another reason why The People should keep and bear arms:

Grossly overweight children may be taken from their families and put into care if Britain’s obesity epidemic continues to escalate, council chiefs said yesterday.
The Local Government Association argued that parents who allowed their children to eat too much could be as guilty of neglect as those who did not feed their children at all.
The association said that until now there had been only a few cases when social services had intervened in obesity cases. But it gave warning that local councils may have to take action much more often and, if necessary, put obese children on “at risk” registers or take them into care. It called for new guidelines to be drawn up to help authorities deal with the issue.
​

You see, if the Brits were still “allowed” to be armed, the very first “guideline” that comes to mind is: keep your :cen: noses out of family business.


As it is, however, Brit parents face having their kids confiscated (and I use the term advisedly) just because little Crispin or Agnes don’t conform with what their government thinks is the “proper” standard of fitness. (Perhaps these kids can just clench their buttocks more.)


Oh well… at least without the kids in the house, Brit parents won’t have to worry about overfilling their trashcans.

 

[Insomniac]

It happened on the isle of white i think, where the social services took away one family's kids, came back for some more and were faced with a LOT of loaded shotguns. Farming community, you see, and they didn't take too nicely to it.


POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

 

[MontyB]

It happened on the isle of white i think, where the social services took away one family's kids, came back for some more and were faced with a LOT of loaded shotguns. Farming community, you see, and they didn't take too nicely to it.


POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

Alternatively the government could implement and maintain a functioning health and P.E. program in schools and we would have a lot less fat kids and no need for guns to enforce peoples right to be fat and a burden on health systems.


But then 5.56 may have a point, there could be a link between guns and weight just look at some of those power house nations like Ethiopia, Somalia, lots of guns and lots of skinny people.

 

[Rob Henderson]

I think he does... I mean, what's a country without guns going to do to a government with guns and training? Who's going to stop the government from taking their children without any means of defense?

Sure, Monty, the government COULD have implemented a physical education program, but they chose not to. They chose to skip being nice and head straight for "we're taking your child because he's fat." That's not fair.

 

[MontyB]

I think he does... I mean, what's a country without guns going to do to a government with guns and training? Who's going to stop the government from taking their children without any means of defense?

Sure, Monty, the government COULD have implemented a physical education program, but they chose not to. They chose to skip being nice and head straight for "we're taking your child because he's fat." That's not fair.

So you think a 200lb 10 year old or a 462lb 15 year old is perfectly acceptable and normal parenting?

Tell me in the USA if you as a parent were doing something to your children that was putting at undue risk of death and it was brought to the attention of authorities what would American child services do?

There is a point where something goes from being poor parenting to child neglect and I would suggest that when your 10 year old is obese for a 5'10 male of large frame then it starts bordering on neglect.

On top of this you know what annoys me the most about attitudes like 5.56's is that I know damn well that had these kids actually died he would be here posting about how the British government failed to "protect" its citizens because none of this is about improving the lot of the individual or even about making things better as a whole its just another platform to sell guns and push the gun lobby.

 

[The Other Guy]

You have the right to keep and bear arms and have a toddler that weighs more than your sofa...

Tell me what's wrong with this picture.

If your kid has some sort of medical conditon, then okay, but if he weighs 200 pounds and he's 7, then it's the parents fault and those parents should not have kids. You're the adult, you can cut off access to the pantry and fridge. I'm not saying starve the kid, but 3 reasonable meals a day.

As for a PhysEd system? Give me a break. I acutally GAINED weight during the last PhysEd class I took.

 

[Insomniac]

what i was actually saying, is that the social services had no right to take the kids and were met with violence.

And what i'm saying now is keep the goddamn government out of my goddamn house because i'm getting goddamn fed up of them intruding on EVERY FCUKING ASPECT OF MY LIFE!

 

[The Other Guy]

If you're a fat*ss, that's your fault. If your kid's a fat*ss, that's also your fault.

 

[Rob Henderson]

5.56's point (I think) and my point is that it is not the governments right to make you do anything. The government cannot take your child away just because you let him/her get obese. To tell you what your childs weight should be is NOT the point of government. I'd rather see a starving child taken from it's parents than an obese child taken away from it's parents.


And TOG, you gained muscle, not fat... (Unless you weren't monitoring your food intake and ate nothing but crap and didn't participate)


And again, BTW, Monty, if obesity was considered neglect, American foster homes would be overflowing. In case you didn't know, we are the most obese nation in the world...

 

[The Other Guy]

And TOG, you gained muscle, not fat... (Unless you weren't monitoring your food intake and ate nothing but crap and didn't participate)

No I didn't, and I can guarantee that no one else in that class did either.

(It wasn't a conditioning class, it was a mandatory "gym" class.

 

[Rob Henderson]

So what did you do? Because in a proper "gym" class, you're supposed to participate in daily physical activity and learn about the importance of good nutrition. Hell, I learned that stuff in ALABAMA. Surely the rest of the States are up to par or beyond. Another question, did you actually pay attention to what you ate? Besides, didn't you JUST say if you're fat it's your own fault? Now you're blaming the class?

 

[pixiedustboo]

I really have no respect for parents that let their child (a young child) get grossly overweight.

Being a parent means keeping your child healthy both mentally and physically. I think with a young child that has no medical reasons to be overweight, who is overweight purely because of parental neglect should be taken away. It IS a form of child abuse when it's a young child who supposed to be monitored by the parents.


P.S. I am talking about heavily overweight, not a normal few pounds.

 

[The Other Guy]

So what did you do? Because in a proper "gym" class, you're supposed to participate in daily physical activity and learn about the importance of good nutrition. Hell, I learned that stuff in ALABAMA. Surely the rest of the States are up to par or beyond. Another question, did you actually pay attention to what you ate? Besides, didn't you JUST say if you're fat it's your own fault? Now you're blaming the class?

For starters, I run rather regularly, 5-6 miles a day in the summer and fall. The class was in the winter.

Secondly, there is no talk on nutrition. None.

Third, no one takes the class seriously. It's honestly a waste of money. Elementary kids generally take it seriously. Middle schoolers generally do too. High Schoolers... well, it's like an extra study hall.

And fourth, I'm not blaming the class for my weight gain, which was only about 3 pounds anyway. I'm just emphasizing that it doesn't really do any good.

I really have no respect for parents that let their child (a young child) get grossly overweight.

Being a parent means keeping your child healthy both mentally and physically. I think with a young child that has no medical reasons to be overweight, who is overweight purely because of parental neglect should be taken away. It IS a form of child abuse when it's a young child who supposed to be monitored by the parents.

Thank you for showing common sense, pixie. You're one of the few.

 

[MontyB]

I really have no respect for parents that let their child (a young child) get grossly overweight.

Being a parent means keeping your child healthy both mentally and physically. I think with a young child that has no medical reasons to be overweight, who is overweight purely because of parental neglect should be taken away. It IS a form of child abuse when it's a young child who supposed to be monitored by the parents.


P.S. I am talking about heavily overweight, not a normal few pounds.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Rob Henderson]

For starters, I run rather regularly, 5-6 miles a day in the summer and fall. The class was in the winter.

So you didn't actually DO anything in the class?

Secondly, there is no talk on nutrition. None.

Well they must not have completed the state course of study because all 50 states require nutrition courses.

Third, no one takes the class seriously. It's honestly a waste of money. Elementary kids generally take it seriously. Middle schoolers generally do too. High Schoolers... well, it's like an extra study hall.

Odd, my school took it quite seriously...

And fourth, I'm not blaming the class for my weight gain, which was only about 3 pounds anyway. I'm just emphasizing that it doesn't really do any good.

And I can probably pull up stats that say of those who actively participate in gym class normally see either no weight gain, very little weight gain, or weight loss. You can't participate in physical activity every day for a year and NOT have something happen positively.

3 year olds, yes. Parental responsibility is HUGE at this developmental point in a child's life. 10 years old, there's a little less parental responsibility, especially since the child is in school now. It should be the job of the school to meet it's required course of study, which includes physical fitness.
15... That's ridiculous. She can do something about it herself.


Pixie, what did you mean by young? Did you mean completely dependent on the parents, or did you mean a child that has been going to school for a few years?

 

[The Other Guy]

3 year olds, yes. Parental responsibility is HUGE at this developmental point in a child's life. 10 years old, there's a little less parental responsibility, especially since the child is in school now. It should be the job of the school to meet it's required course of study, which includes physical fitness.
15... That's ridiculous. She can do something about it herself.

Who's raising the kids now, the school or the parents? I smell contradiction...

 

[MontyB]

Do you think these kids suddenly put on 150- 500lb over night?

For the most part a heavily obese people develop their size over a long period of time so my guess is that an obese 10 and 15 year old was more than likely an obese 3, 4, 5, 10 year old as well.

Reality is that parents who take an interest in their kids generally don't allow them to get this way.

 

[pixiedustboo]

Do you think these kids suddenly put on 150- 500lb over night?

For the most part a heavily obese people develop their size over a long period of time so my guess is that an obese 10 and 15 year old was more than likely an obese 3, 4, 5, 10 year old as well.

Reality is that parents who take an interest in their kids generally don't allow them to get this way.

Very true.

I am all for freedoms, etc, but one area I do not deviate on is freedom of parenting. I truly do think there ARE right and wrong ways of parenting and if the child is in dangerous (and being grossly overweight is a danger) situation either mentally or physically they should be taken out of the home.

Being grossly overweight effects both the physical body and the mind, so it is no different than any other type of abuse in my opinion.

The only problem with taking them out of the home is finding another healthy and safe environment until such a time as they are adopted or the parents feel they can actually BE parents.



I used to work for a very nice Day Care and there was a little girl there who was 4 years old and obese. It broke my heart. At 4 years old she still wanted to cuddle...and be held...and there is no way this child could sit on someone's lap or ever be picked up. (At least not by the average person). Those parents and EVERYONE contributing to her situation was abusing her. And to this day she is teased and hurt by children on the bus systems and at school. I know this because the girls I watch are close to her age.

If that isn't ABUSE I don't know what is.

 

[5.56X45mm]

what i was actually saying, is that the social services had no right to take the kids and were met with violence.

And what i'm saying now is keep the goddamn government out of my goddamn house because i'm getting goddamn fed up of them intruding on EVERY FCUKING ASPECT OF MY LIFE!

Ding, ding, ding..... WE HAVE A WINNER.

Government Intrusion by the Super Big Brother / Nanny State of the UK. There are over 1,000 laws in the UK that allow the Government to enter your homes. What right does the government have to do that? NONE!

I'm all for social service (that actually help people and are not just government pork barrel spending like the currently abused welfare system welfare) and I am 100% against child abuse and super fat ass kids. But I'm also against government intrusion.

Pretty soon in the UK it's going to be illegal to raise your kid as a Christian or maybe allow him/her to read comic books.

A lot of people think that I take the Slippery Slope theory to far but I see it happening in the UK as we speak. The first thing that happened was that the socialist liberals gained power. Then they made the nation a country of PC sissies. Then they went and disarmed the populace. Now they have a Nanny State in power that suffers from multiple personality disorder. It thinks it's a Nanny State but it also thinks that it's Big Brother.

You have every street corner with a camera watching your every move. You have over 1,000 laws that allow the State to enter your home. You have a legal system in which the victim is the criminal and the criminal is the victim. You have violent crime climbing and a police force that has become useless. You have citizens being arrested for defending themselves from thugs and small local government fining people for crimes they were victims of.

Pretty soon the UK is going to make George Orwell's 1984, Stalin's USSR, Hitler's Germany, Mao's China, and Castro's Cuba look like a vacation.

The government from V for Vendetta doesn't look like a comic book. anymore.

 

[MontyB]

Very true.

I am all for freedoms, etc, but one area I do not deviate on is freedom of parenting. I truly do think there ARE right and wrong ways of parenting and if the child is in dangerous (and being grossly overweight is a danger) situation either mentally or physically they should be taken out of the home.

Being grossly overweight effects both the physical body and the mind, so it is no different than any other type of abuse in my opinion.

The only problem with taking them out of the home is finding another healthy and safe environment until such a time as they are adopted or the parents feel they can actually BE parents.



I used to work for a very nice Day Care and there was a little girl there who was 4 years old and obese. It broke my heart. At 4 years old she still wanted to cuddle...and be held...and there is no way this child could sit on someone's lap or ever be picked up. (At least not by the average person). Those parents and EVERYONE contributing to her situation was abusing her. And to this day she is teased and hurt by children on the bus systems and at school. I know this because the girls I watch are close to her age.

If that isn't ABUSE I don't know what is.

I agree and taking the kids from their parents should be the absolute last resort, personally I think the first steps should be to work with parents/schools to ensure that they know what they should be doing but if all of the options fail I have no problem with the authorities stepping in and doing what is in the child's best interests.

Ding, ding, ding..... WE HAVE A WINNER.

Government Intrusion by the Super Big Brother / Nanny State of the UK. There are over 1,000 laws in the UK that allow the Government to enter your homes. What right does the government have to do that? NONE!

I'm all for social service (that actually help people and are not just government pork barrel spending like the currently abused welfare system welfare) and I am 100% against child abuse and super fat ass kids. But I'm also against government intrusion.

Pretty soon in the UK it's going to be illegal to raise your kid as a Christian or maybe allow him/her to read comic books.

A lot of people think that I take the Slippery Slope theory to far but I see it happening in the UK as we speak. The first thing that happened was that the socialist liberals gained power. Then they made the nation a country of PC sissies. Then they went and disarmed the populace. Now they have a Nanny State in power that suffers from multiple personality disorder. It thinks it's a Nanny State but it also thinks that it's Big Brother.

You have every street corner with a camera watching your every move. You have over 1,000 laws that allow the State to enter your home. You have a legal system in which the victim is the criminal and the criminal is the victim. You have violent crime climbing and a police force that has become useless. You have citizens being arrested for defending themselves from thugs and small local government fining people for crimes they were victims of.

Pretty soon the UK is going to make George Orwell's 1984, Stalin's USSR, Hitler's Germany, Mao's China, and Castro's Cuba look like a vacation.

The government from V for Vendetta doesn't look like a comic book. anymore.

So you think that the answer to child abuse, neglect and poor parenting is to stop child welfare authorities from doing their job by handing out guns.
This doesn't come as a surprise I am afraid.

I really suggest that you find a copy of the Simpsons episode where Homer gets a gun, every time you post on this issue I see Homer at the keyboard.