Unfit (Another overstepping of the UK Government)

I'm all for social service (that actually help people and are not just government pork barrel spending like the currently abused welfare system welfare) and I am 100% against child abuse and super fat ass kids. But I'm also against government intrusion.

How will the kids be helped if we just sit back and watch? Wait. When should the government be involved? Or should it be involved at all? When does it become necessity to get a child out of an abusive household?

When the child is being abused by hitting? Does one have to be able to see the marks before it's determined? No, I have a better one. How many marks does one have to see? How long does it have to go on for?

When the child is being abused sexually?

When the child is being abused in another manner? (i.e. Being led into gross obesity, or not being fed).

It makes me very nervous when people decide to let others be for the sake of their idea of freedom. The children that are put into those situations do NOT have normal freedoms of other children. They cannot run with any sort of endurance (if at all), they cannot be held, they are teased every day in school and on the bus systems because of their weight....

For a normal, healthy child with no medical issues to be neglected and led into a lifestyle where they are a prisoner in their own body is abuse, and if I were in charge I'd break into the people's house on my own and deal with it. I have NO tolerance for parents who neglect their children in any manner.

If people are too damn lazy, stupid, mean, or plain just don't care about their children you bet your ass I'd hope my government would step in. Someone has to. Who will it be if it's not the government.



-----I really honestly see your way of thinking in this. I will also acknowledge that there is a very high "how will it be determined when the government should step in" factor. I do NOT believe they should be able to just waltz into anyone's home or life, but if there is any reasonable doubt, even a shred...where a child is concerned then in my opinion the parents should be subject to that invasion of their privacy.-----
 
I agree and taking the kids from their parents should be the absolute last resort, personally I think the first steps should be to work with parents/schools to ensure that they know what they should be doing but if all of the options fail I have no problem with the authorities stepping in and doing what is in the child's best interests.



So you think that the answer to child abuse, neglect and poor parenting is to stop child welfare authorities from doing their job by handing out guns.
This doesn't come as a surprise I am afraid.

I really suggest that you find a copy of the Simpsons episode where Homer gets a gun, every time you post on this issue I see Homer at the keyboard.

No... I think that to stop this as nothing to do with firearms. I think that to stop fat ass kids is simple. PE Class.... worked wonders for me as a kid. I hated it because of the running but I loved it because of the baseball and dodge ball and later in my high school days because of the female students in skimpy gym shorts and t-shirts.

But I'm also against government intrusion. Social Services has become FUBAR and corrupted. The UK especially.... Kids shouldn't be fat, but when I was in school I remember there being fat kids. Yes, I'm cruel and so is life. Should a seven year old weigh 200lbs. HELL NO! Should the Parents grow a pair and tell little Johnny/Jessy that he/she should lay off the junk food. HELL YES! My father raised me very easily. He unplugged the TV and the Nintendo and made my little ass go outside and play baseball and ride bike instead.

The issue in the UK and in the rest of the world is the belief that Government should raise the kids. That Government will answer all of my problems. :cen: GOVERNMENT! It's not the government's job to raise kids. It's the parents' job. If they do a shitty job and little johnny/jessy is a fat ass. That's their fault..... The School and State should not be raising kids.

Social Services like Florida's Department of Children and Families are there for child abuse. Beating the kid with a iron because he/she spilled milk on the floor. Not because little johnny/jessy is over weight and does go outside.

A a cop I am dispatched to FDCF calls. Because I'm there to investigate and make sure that if a crime is committed that the suspect is arrested for committing the crime. 90% of the time it's because either the school called FDCF because little johnny/jessy told teacher that mommy or daddy spanked them for lying and the teacher hates physical punishment. Or it's because little johnny/jessy called FDCF themselves and said that mommy or daddy beats them when in fact they just spank them.

Spanking as a Punishment is not a crime but FDCF must investigate each call just like I do. What happens 90% of the time.... nothing. The Parents were doing their job raising their kids.

The entire social system has become a witch hunt type system.... and the Government has been glad to simply burn people at the stake.

Texas is a perfect example.... The Texas version of FDCF went and broke up entire families because of false charges. Why? Because they were extreme Christians that lived in a convent and closed themselves off the society. The Courts ruled that the State had no right to do so. Parents wanted to raise their kids as whatever crazy religion they were.... they have a right too. I was raised Catholic and you were raised what ever you were raised as.


Like I said..... I'm all for social services when they work. But in today's world they don't. The state simply uses them for their own wishes. Government Intrusion is bad but look MontyB. If you like it then fine...... let the :cen:ing Gestopo into your house. I'll make sure they never enter mine.
 
Lastly... here is the sad truth to life. IT'S NOT FAIR!

I was teased in school because I wore glasses. The fat kids were teased because they're fat. The rockers were teased because they didn't listen to rap, etc.... THAT'S LIFE....

Not everyone is a Greek God. Some people are fat asses and some people are athletes. Plain and simple.... Look around... I see adults that are super major fat assess. Do you really think that they were the active ones as kids? NO! They were the fat assess back then too.....

You get teased as a child. It's part of growing up. You either deal with it and raise above it or you don't and fail. That's the way society works. Survival of the Fittest (Mentally and Physically). The world is harsh and society sucks balls. Get used to it...

As for when should the state step in.... What you view as abuse I might view as raising your kid right. Some people view a spanking as a crime. My father kicked my ass when I was a teenager for lying... It would be abuse if it was reported. But guess what. I learned my lesson and I'm a straight as an arrow. I've never been in trouble with the law, I served my country, I became a police officer, and lastly I'm a good person with good morals.

A good smack to the back of the head does wonders for kids. I see kids at Walmart acting in such ways that I cannot believe. The parents simply have this look on their faces of "what can I do? I've done everthing." When I tell them to give him/her a good swift kick in the ass they turn white and says that spanking is horrible and a vile crime. Well..... if the kid knows that a stern talking from mommy or daddy doesn't do **** maybe a smack across the back of the head and a swift kick in the ass will.

You want little timmy to stop being a fat ass. DON'T BUY HIM THE FOOD. Simple as that.... don't buy him the chips, soda, cake, candy, etc.....

I cannot understand why people can't just grow a pair. Society since the 1960s has really been wussified by the whole free love, hippie, be one with mother Earth crap.....

Grow a pair, raise your kids, and if he/she acts up punish him/her.
If the parents abuse the kid, beat the crap out of the parents.

Here is something you all should do. Ask your Grandparents or someone you know that was born before 1945 and ask them how they were raised....
 
Lastly... here is the sad truth to life. IT'S NOT FAIR!

I was teased in school because I wore glasses. The fat kids were teased because they're fat. The rockers were teased because they didn't listen to rap, etc.... THAT'S LIFE....

Not everyone is a Greek God. Some people are fat asses and some people are athletes. Plain and simple.... Look around... I see adults that are super major fat assess. Do you really think that they were the active ones as kids? NO! They were the fat assess back then too.....

You get teased as a child. It's part of growing up. You either deal with it and raise above it or you don't and fail. That's the way society works. Survival of the Fittest (Mentally and Physically). The world is harsh and society sucks balls. Get used to it...

As for when should the state step in.... What you view as abuse I might view as raising your kid right. Some people view a spanking as a crime. My father kicked my ass when I was a teenager for lying... It would be abuse if it was reported. But guess what. I learned my lesson and I'm a straight as an arrow. I've never been in trouble with the law, I served my country, I became a police officer, and lastly I'm a good person with good morals.

A good smack to the back of the head does wonders for kids. I see kids at Walmart acting in such ways that I cannot believe. The parents simply have this look on their faces of "what can I do? I've done everthing." When I tell them to give him/her a good swift kick in the ass they turn white and says that spanking is horrible and a vile crime. Well..... if the kid knows that a stern talking from mommy or daddy doesn't do **** maybe a smack across the back of the head and a swift kick in the ass will.

You want little timmy to stop being a fat ass. DON'T BUY HIM THE FOOD. Simple as that.... don't buy him the chips, soda, cake, candy, etc.....

I cannot understand why people can't just grow a pair. Society since the 1960s has really been wussified by the whole free love, hippie, be one with mother Earth crap.....

Grow a pair, raise your kids, and if he/she acts up punish him/her.
If the parents abuse the kid, beat the crap out of the parents.

Here is something you all should do. Ask your Grandparents or someone you know that was born before 1945 and ask them how they were raised....
I never insinuated life was fair.

Some people are "fat asses" when children because their parents don't give a **** about them so they NEGLECT them. Or they don't want to hear them whining about wanting another candy bar so they shove it into their mouths. (And don't get me started about those over indulgent parents who can't handle their children).

Hence if the parent isn't going to stop feeding them crap, or doesn't care if their child can barely walk I think the government should step in.

Children raised in 1945 also weren't raised as extremely obese. (At least no where near today's rates of obese children). I truly believe making one's child obese is abuse, it's the opposite of starving a child. (I believe "kicking the ass" of a young child is abuse. If a parent has control of their child from the start then discipline to get the desired result of behavior should come no where near "kicking their ass," as the respect for authority would already be known).

And like I said, when I say "overweight" and "obese" I'm talking about the 3 and 4 year-olds that can't be picked up by mommy because she's feeding them junk food ten times a day. Children have parents because they don't temper themselves - the parents should be doing that for them, any parent worth their merit. If they aren't, they are neglecting their child. Health issues, mental issues, and physical issues all come with extreme obesity. Abuse.
 
I'm gonna let 5.56 take this thread... He's got all my bases covered... I'm against abuse (including neglecting to give your child adequate nutrition) but am also against EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE being controlled by government. Power is corruption. And I don't want corruption to have any more power than it needs.
 
So...the government should have no control over the lives of the children who are abused?

Yeah, I don't agree with that.

If the child is in danger (real danger, not something stupid like spanking), someone should have the balls to help them. If the people won't do it then by God the government should.
 
I'm pretty much with 5.56 on this one.
The blame ultimately falls on us for asking, basically TELLING the government to raise our kids and control everything.
What 5.56 said is so simple yet seems so difficult for people to understand.
But there's always a solution to problems that are as big as these. We have to get our butts kicked really really hard. All of us.
 
I never insinuated life was fair.

Some people are "fat asses" when children because their parents don't give a **** about them so they NEGLECT them. Or they don't want to hear them whining about wanting another candy bar so they shove it into their mouths. (And don't get me started about those over indulgent parents who can't handle their children).

Hence if the parent isn't going to stop feeding them crap, or doesn't care if their child can barely walk I think the government should step in.

Children raised in 1945 also weren't raised as extremely obese. (At least no where near today's rates of obese children). I truly believe making one's child obese is abuse, it's the opposite of starving a child. (I believe "kicking the ass" of a young child is abuse. If a parent has control of their child from the start then discipline to get the desired result of behavior should come no where near "kicking their ass," as the respect for authority would already be known).

And like I said, when I say "overweight" and "obese" I'm talking about the 3 and 4 year-olds that can't be picked up by mommy because she's feeding them junk food ten times a day. Children have parents because they don't temper themselves - the parents should be doing that for them, any parent worth their merit. If they aren't, they are neglecting their child. Health issues, mental issues, and physical issues all come with extreme obesity. Abuse.

I agree and this argument that governments should stay out of the family is a nonsense. I don't care if 18-100 year old decide they want to eat themselves to a quick death, that is their choice and they are old enough to make an informed decision but 1-10 year olds are not and if the parents are not going to do right by them then the government should.

I am not sure there is a comparison between today's kid and those of 1945. The current "throw away/fast food" lifestyle is something no previous generation has had to contend with, I can guarantee that no child of 1945 could dial a pizza or buy 20 different fast foods in the school cafeteria and then waddle home to sit in front of the Xbox waiting for their parents to get home from work.
 
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Hmmm... actually although 5.56 makes perfect sense I think the obese we're dealing with here is like so fat that they would move faster by rolling than running. On even ground that is.
I don't think we're talking about obese as in the fat kid at school obese. I think we're dealing with kids so fat that they can't even make it to school without a fork lift.
Yeah, something like this would be a criminal offense. The bar should be set high though.
In these extreme cases... yeah I'm going to flip flop and agree with Pixie.

Again, not only are we responsible because we ask the government to step in, but because enough of us are so stupid and incompetent where it starts to become necessary.

I hate government intrusion, but stuffing your kid to death has to be a criminal offense.
 
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I agree and this argument that governments should stay out of the family is a nonsense. I don't care if 18-100 year old decide they want to eat themselves to a quick death, that is their choice and they are old enough to make an informed decision but 1-10 year olds are not and if the parents are not going to do right by them then the government should.
Yep, that is exactly the ages I am talking about. Too young to care for themselves or know what is best for them.

If people don't want the government telling them how to raise their children then perhaps they should 'grow balls,' like others said and raise their children decently. If not, too ****ing bad.

Someone needs to step in when a child is in danger.
 
i think (personally) that it should be done on a "strike" system.

Strike 1 - warning (official)
Strike 2 - Arrest & caution
Strike 3 - Kids removed.


These would only be implemented if absolutely NO CHANGES were being made. IE, no drop in child's weight over a one-year period. No change in diet/activity made etc.
 
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