Underused weapons and equipment in WW II - Page 3




 
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November 17th, 2011  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42RM
Another weapon category for selected special operations scenarios is the sub-machine gun, with one of the most popular models being the 9mm Heckler & Koch MP5. With over 120 variants available, the MP5 meets the broadest range of tactical requirements. [/COLOR]
The H&K MP5 appears to be the SMG of choice these days around the world.

However, the thing I don't like about the H&K MP5 is the roller locking, if its not kept spotlessly clean it jams. Neither do I like the closed bolt, which as you know can result in cook off's. If I were given a choice of SMG's I'd go for the UZI, even though I have a fondness for the Sterling.

The H&K G3 rifle had the same problem with the roller locking, on top of that it was a pig to clean, especially the chamber. The G3 was issued a few years ago to some African troops/rebels, unlike the AK47 the G3 didn't like being dirty, the average African trooper/rebel doesn't know a pull through from his bum or his elbow. A huge of G3's were found dumped, they were collected and properly cleaned, hey presto fully functioning rifles.
November 17th, 2011  
42RM
 
I've never had problems with either G3 or MP5. I've had them in water, sand, mud and snow. I've used them in the arctic regions and in jungles and they work just perfectly.

Firing from the closed-bolt position offers inherently higher hit potential than that obtainable from submachine guns which fire from the open bolt. When the heavy bolts utilized by most pure blowback smg´s fly forward and then stop violently against the chamber, accuracy is bound to be adversely affected. The theoretical problem associated with closed-bolt operation has always been that of "cook-off." When barrel temperatures greater than 250 degrees Centigrade are maintained for more than a minute, premature ignition of a cartridge in the over-heated chamber becomes possible. There has been some speculation about the MP5 in this area.

In fact, you cannot induce cook-offs in the MP5 under any remotely realistic set of circumstances. However, the receiver's chamber area, which acts as a heat sink, gets righteously hot in the attempt. If you are accustomed to holding the palm of the support hand back against the magazine-well and under the chamber area, the larger (and now standard), so-called "tropical" forearm is recommended instead of the earlier slimline handguard. The "cookoff" problem is more theoretical than practical and the gun is , indeed, easier to shoot well under stress than a typical open-bolt operated smg.
November 17th, 2011  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42RM
I've never had problems with either G3 or MP5. I've had them in water, sand, mud and snow. I've used them in the arctic regions and in jungles and they work just perfectly.
I guess you have never been afflicted with African troops/rebels, if they can break it, they will. The only gun that can survive their handling/mistreatment is the AK47.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42RM
Firing from the closed-bolt position offers inherently higher hit potential than that obtainable from submachine guns which fire from the open bolt. When the heavy bolts utilized by most pure blowback smg´s fly forward and then stop violently against the chamber, accuracy is bound to be adversely affected. The theoretical problem associated with closed-bolt operation has always been that of "cook-off." When barrel temperatures greater than 250 degrees Centigrade are maintained for more than a minute, premature ignition of a cartridge in the over-heated chamber becomes possible. There has been some speculation about the MP5 in this area.
I agree with you, firing from a closed bolt is inherently far more accurate then firing from a open bolt. Personally I have always found that the Sterling to be more then adequate when fired repetition or bursts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42RM
In fact, you cannot induce cook-offs in the MP5 under any remotely realistic set of circumstances. However, the receiver's chamber area, which acts as a heat sink, gets righteously hot in the attempt. If you are accustomed to holding the palm of the support hand back against the magazine-well and under the chamber area, the larger (and now standard), so-called "tropical" forearm is recommended instead of the earlier slimline handguard. The "cookoff" problem is more theoretical than practical and the gun is , indeed, easier to shoot well under stress than a typical open-bolt operated smg.
I can fully understand that the gun is easier to shoot from a closed bolt. There has been a lot of discussion over the years regarding cook-off, some say impossible, other not. I would still be very cautious regarding cook-off.

Interesting subject.
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November 18th, 2011  
42RM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
I would still be very cautious regarding cook-off.
It's always a good thing to be cautious when dealing with firearms.

And as my Troop Sergeant always says to the new lads. Sex and weapons handling has in common that: “Good gunners fire controlled bursts preventing the weapon from overheating”.
November 20th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
An inexpensive, portable antitank cannon that was not produced in sufficient quantities was the 25 mm Hotchkiss, to which the German tanks that invaded France were susceptible. It knocked out several tanks in Gembloux, etc, and had there been more of them in Guderian's and Rommel's paths, it could have slowed down or stopped the Sickle cut. Its only draw back was the relatively short range, compared to larger AT guns firing at the same velocity. Had the allies invaded Germany en masse in September 1939, this portable gun would have been invaluable to eliminate the counter attacking German tanks, peslecially in urba settings.
November 21st, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
6.2 million of the M1 carbine were produced and it was an underachiever. It would have been much better had it been produced either for a lengthened .38 super auto cartridge or for a shortened 30.06 case 1.5" long and firing a 130 gr bullet. But the low velocity, low sectional density bullet of the .30 carbine has poor stopping power at short range and poor ballistics and much worse stopping power at 200 m.
November 21st, 2011  
VDKMS
 
fabricating weapons is not a simple thing to do. You cannot change part of your production overnight to build new weapons. And the armed forces wanted their weapons NOW, not in three months or so. Most of the time when a superior weapon was developed but not brought into production, or produced in limited numbers there was a reason for it.
November 22nd, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
Since the .30 carbine was made only for that rifle, I see no problem in making that rifle with a different case.
Assuming that the military knew what they were doing and there was always a reason for doing things that way is unfounded. As we have mentioned in several instances, there are several factors, including leader ignorance, corruption, etc, that often contributed to inferior weapons.
The grease-gun, P-38, Sherman tanks, B-24, the Airacobra, the M1 carbine, etc, are good examples of basic manufacturing or design mistakes, that the advanced American industry and designers should not have made. They cost a lot to make and performed rather poorly.

The Japanese had a logistics nightmare because they used several cartridges for their rifles and machine guns (rimmed, unrimmed, etc,). Most of their machine guns were extremely impractical. However, starting in 1943 they were extremely efficient building fortifications and defending them. It is surprising how long they resisted and how many American casualties they caused in most islands, despite formidable American air and naval artillery support and overwhelming American troop superiority.
November 22nd, 2011  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Have you any idea at all what is involved with introducing a new cartridge or rifle, the tooling up, testing and retesting?

Obviously not, otherwise you wouldn't post such rubbish
November 22nd, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
It takes a day to make the dies in a lathe. Not much testing involved. I have made several wildcats.
 


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