UAVs

A Can of Man

Je suis aware
There were polls made on the UAV but not a proper thread. So here it is, our UAV thread.

I believe that UAV is closer to being used as the backbone of combat aircraft than most people like to think. One reason why this development isn't going as fast as it can is because the manned aircraft are being protected by the Pilot class generals. Basically an air force without pilots is unthinkable.

But when was the last time an American combat aircraft actually engaged in extensive air to air dogfight? I believe the last time an actual dogfight took place was Vietnam. After Vietnam, the kills seem to have all come from Phoenix or AMRAAMs with beyond visual range kills. Current UAVs have proven that they can take out ground targets as they have for the CIA in the War against Terror.

In the question of air superiority, again, dogfighting never did it. Nowadays a precise strike of cruise missiles, stealth fighter raids (which can also be unmanned) can win you total air dominance. If an enemy does reach the air, you can engage with long range air to air missiles and win here. If the enemy does shoot down one of your UAVs, you don't have to worry about losing pilots, having hostages that will give the enemy leverage in negotiations and also a UAV tends to be cheaper than a manned combat aircraft.

Unmanned vehicles are underrated at this point. After all, if a satellite mission all the way to the ends of the solar system can be done by a robot, collecting all kinds of information and finding its way around the vast emptiness, I have full confidence that it could do something as elementry as take off, fly a pre-determined route or take commands from a remote station, drop a bomb on a target and then fly back and land on its own.

Think of the potential. An aircraft that can fit in your bedroom that can have a "crew" of 6. Imagine the incredible ability that would have. Situational awareness issues could be solved just like that. Need more people helping out on that mission? No problem. Just link another control station. No "B" model of the aircraft neccessary.

Point is, the advantages of the UAV are so staggeringly clear, that we will see the end of manned aircraft after the next generation of fighter aircraft are ruled obsolete.
 
I have heard one Fighter Pilot refer to himself and his other pilots as ' the last actual pilot generation.' He was referring to the fact that UAV's are getting bigger and better and do not put human lives on the line.
 
Darcia said:
I have heard one Fighter Pilot refer to himself and his other pilots as ' the last actual pilot generation.' He was referring to the fact that UAV's are getting bigger and better and do not put human lives on the line.

also have you seen all the UAV's that are now being used? they may be the last pilot generation for countries such as France,UK,US etc... but for countries like Tanzania the last real pilot generation for them may be at least 30-40 years away
 
The one thing about UAV's is also that they cannot get them big enough yet to do the Damage of things like the B-1 and B-2 bombers.So even when fighter pilots are out the Bomber pilots will probably remain for some time.
 
Darcia said:
The one thing about UAV's is also that they cannot get them big enough yet to do the Damage of things like the B-1 and B-2 bombers.So even when fighter pilots are out the Bomber pilots will probably remain for some time.

Bomber pilots may remain for about 10 years to 20 years after the UCAV's are fully introduced and piloted fighters are gone.
 
UAV's I completely disapprove of them. Men will always fly better than machine and will function better. Also where will all the air force pilots work!
Also you won't ever get the stories of heros in combat again and many people who wanted the thrill of gettin in g forces will not experience it!
 
EagleStrike said:
UAV's I completely disapprove of them. Men will always fly better than machine and will function better. Also where will all the air force pilots work!
Exactly.
If I need close air support, I want a real pilot in the plane and not a drone.
 
A manned aircraft may perform better.
But consider this.
At the price of a manned airplane, you could build and maintain ten. And when you lose three, no one really cares. There'll be a review board on how the planes were lost and disciplinary action carried out on the guys who controlled it. There will be no issue of rotting for years in a rat infested gulag.
Close air support? You could just talk to the guy controlling that aircraft as you would talk to the pilot. In fact, because of cameras that can be mounted looking down from the aircraft he could have a MUCH better view of how the situation is unfolding. Then the controller of the aircraft, in a safe location, has an image of the battle area on a large multi function display now dotted iwth blue dots and red dots for friends and foes determined by IFF devices on the ground now used like popping smoke... except completely invisible to the enemy. The IR Sinature formations that do not share the IFF ID anywhere are determined as foe (in a platoon of friendies, at least FIVE of those IFF thigns have to be working, right?) Information processing will be very quick as there will be a whole staff of people organizing incoming information into meaningful ways for the controllers of the aircraft to use.
The best approach will be determined within minutes and a well coordinated close air support is delivered.

Think about that. A flight of four UAVs... each controlled by one person but supported by a staff of maybe even up to 12 people. You got the organization of a small AWACs plane with the firepower of 4 strike jets.
 
I think that is is possible that we will have all UAVs maybe by the time I'm on my death bed.

But think about it, how long has the U.S. army been working on something as comparitively simple as the Land Warrior System or the OICW?

I think the next generation of bombers will feature unmanned stealth bombers capable of flying a GPS route and dropping all their bombs right where you want them.

But for Close Air Support you want to trust a UAV dropping napalm 500ft away from your position? Like hell! I want real eyes and ears in that A-10. And we are a long long way from removing the pilot from the fighter aircraft.

For precision bombing I think we are almost there. But as for Air-to-Air and Close Air Support, AI is way too far off and think about communications. What happens to your 50 million dollar jet when its remote control communications get jammed... that's not going to be a pretty sight when congress reviews the AF budget.
 
Who says AI? Get someone to control it from miles away. CONTROLLED, not pre-programmed. Do that and you've solved the AI problem already.
That guy will be in a virtual cockpit with better visibility than any A-10 pilot, without the fear of losing his life and a better idea of where friendlies and foes are.
 
UAV's may not completly replace fighter pilots however they are what the next generation of war will be like, alrady the US Military is creating special robot divisions and Isreal posses a UAV Boat, The fact of the matter is the human element of war is slowly being removed as it is being a way to try to help save lives, Computers in some cases may prove to be better than humans. There is a chance Computer controlled weapons will be in the front lines of WW3, with the Units being on the front lines and thier controllers being miles away.
 
Let me answer your question with the quote from my above post.

the_13th_redneck said:
Who says AI? Get someone to control it from miles away. CONTROLLED, not pre-programmed. Do that and you've solved the AI problem already.
That guy will be in a virtual cockpit with better visibility than any A-10 pilot, without the fear of losing his life and a better idea of where friendlies and foes are.

Whispering Death said:
What happens to your 50 million dollar jet when its remote control communications get jammed...
 
Well you have to start somewhere. I mean i wouldn't have trusted the Spruce Goose dropping bombs :p But as we start progressing they will undoubtedly get better and after a few generations of planes be very trustworthy. I mean pretty much every weapon ever convieced has gone through this phase. The first rifles used were prone to blowing up in the users face. But they kept improving and now we have a staple of combat today. Give it time and they will be just as usefull.
 
who knows, one day they might be incrediably cheap and mass produced so you would have the air swarming with hundreds of 1000 dollar UAVs
 
Whispering Death said:
Let me answer your question with the quote from my above post.

the_13th_redneck said:
Who says AI? Get someone to control it from miles away. CONTROLLED, not pre-programmed. Do that and you've solved the AI problem already.
That guy will be in a virtual cockpit with better visibility than any A-10 pilot, without the fear of losing his life and a better idea of where friendlies and foes are.

Whispering Death said:
What happens to your 50 million dollar jet when its remote control communications get jammed...

The UAV is not going to cost 50 million dollars. A key factor about UAVs is just HOW MUCH cheaper they are compared to manned aircraft.
There are risks involved in this. It's not fail safe. But you can see what I'm getting at. When it works, it'll be just as effective, if not more, and a heck of a lot cheaper. Also no one dies.
The MAIN problem is... what if someone on the other side is able to hack in and control the damn plane?

Who knows...
maybe for close air support they could have VTOL UAVs that are actually controlled by the Army itself. A strike request goes to HQ, HQ's Air strike team quickly writes up a flight script for a UAV and sends it on its merry way. 5 minutes and the bombs are dropped.
 
The truth of the matter is even the 'manned' aircraft we have are basicly computer controlled on some level with the people just thier to fly it when necessary, like the F-117 and the B-2.
 
Well for bombers they are working right now on a stealth bomber that will be fully AI controlled that can takeoff from the U.S. fly into a hostile location drop 4 JDAM bombs onto GPS locations and fly back and land in the U.S. all by itself without risking a single American life. They should have them in our arsenal by 2015.

My objection is the notion that this generation is the last generation of pilots which I think is a very very premature assertion.
 
No, this isn't the last generation of pilots. The F-22 and the F-35 is going to be in service for a long time. Those are probably going to be the last generation of manned fixed wing combat aircraft. The pilots are going to be around for a while. But the thing is, you'll see the UAV take the missions of manned aircraft one by one.
Long range bombing is an obvious choice for the UAV because of the simple nature of the mission.
 
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