U.S losing focus on terriosm by going into Iraq? - Page 5




 
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Boots
 
February 17th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
Don't forget that in Bush's speech he said that not only the terrorists who were directly involved in the attack on America but the ones who harbor and give aid to them are targeted. I'd put Iraq squarely in the middle of that description. Iraq is only the starting blocks for this run my friends.
February 17th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Whispering wrote:

Quote:
But I guess it is all water under the bridge since you agree with me that the invasion of Iraq was the morally correct thing to do.
Morally, yes.

But it is not Morality No 1. Unfortunately, the statements of the Administration, the media blitz and the allied hoopla made Iraq the cause celebre in the messianic zeal that went into making Iraq the prima donna of this 'liberation of the oppressed' agenda.

However, the unholy haste to get rid of the UN Inspectors, debunking the UN, 'with us or against us' jibe and the hellfired hurry to open a second front without finishing the first or 'smoking Osama bin Laden, dead or alive' does suggest that Afghanistan was merely a smokescreen.

The fact that Osama is frolicking in the hills on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan is incongruent to the messianic and sincere tone of the 'we will smoke him out' speech. The fact that the US is no longer concerned about this person does lead most to believe that it was just rhetoric to build up a case for whatever was planned.

Then, the WMD was not found. For months the US searched and they found nothing. And yet, the UN inspectors were debunked as bumbling fools and were not even given the time to check - not even the time the US inspectors got and failed.

All this does make one wonder.

Whilst Americans have a stake in Iraq and hence do not wish to see these issues and maybe rightly so for patriotic reasons, others who have no stake can sit back and without emotion analyse the issue. Had it been my nation, maybe I too would be blind to my nation's folly. That is but being human.

And honestly, I don't think I have to agree with or disagree with anyone. I don't take anyone's or my post as a personal edict that has to be kowtowed to. Not at all. The Board is merely a vehicle for interaction and education.

I do value your posts. It gives me an insight of the American line of thought.



Is there--is there balm in Gilead?--tell me--tell me I implore!"
Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."
February 17th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
Peter, that is probably one of the most verbose left handed compliments I've ever read. Americans are not too long on rhetoric and posturing, as demonstrated throughout our history. What our President says he will do, he will do. Sure lives are lost, that's why they call it war. There is America and there are paper tigers, we choose to live up to our word when given.

As for morality, there is morality, immorality, and amorality, not moral #1, #2...
--
Boots
February 17th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missileer
Peter, that is probably one of the most verbose left handed compliments I've ever read. Americans are not too long on rhetoric and posturing, as demonstrated throughout our history. What our President says he will do, he will do. Sure lives are lost, that's why they call it war. There is America and there are paper tigers, we choose to live up to our word when given.

As for morality, there is morality, immorality, and amorality, not moral #1, #2...
Few points of clarification

1. Verbosity is because inspite of writing nearly the same thing in four or more post apparently the point was still not understood. I leave it to you to understand the underlining message.

2. I daresay my English is poor.

3. Americans are not verbose (!), but they are prone to use words that are interesting and quaint and the syntax is on the lines of 'catch me if you can' e.g 'it would not be wrong to state' when it could be said simply as 'it is not wrong' Direct and no p u ssy-footing. One has to just listen to the Press Secretary's briefing or even Rumsfeld clarifications! And they are prone to hyperboles. I say this since you wanted to educate me about Americans. You must realise I am not from the jungles and a little pagan running about naked. Do desist the temptation of riding the high horse..

4. I am rather elated to hear that the US President says what he means. I await the day when Osama is smoked out. I also await dramatic stride in, biological science for the miracle drug for eternal life.

5. Thank you for the English lesson on the world 'morality'. Rather kind of you. Since direct English was not being comprehended, such levels had to be done for understanding. Rwanda was a genocide. There is enough to state as to who stopped it being declared so. Let's leave it at that.

6. Of course American live up to their word. But I don't wish to get into that since it could be proved otherwise from examples of history. I am here not to initiate any war whether it is cyberwar or flame war.

7. As far as I am concerned, in our country, we don't have the word 'bodybags' and sentiments 'Sure lives are lost, that's why they call it war' is at best pedestrian.

I also find it amusing that you attribute sentences to me or ideas that are not in my post that warrant staements from you - 'Sure lives are lost, that's why they call it war'.

As stated before, lives while precious are not worried about when the price is our national honour. We believe in 'Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori',
February 17th, 2005  
Big_Z
 
 
I think most Americans know we screwed up and didn't find any WMD's. Would you have rather us up and leave as soon as we found out we were wrong and leave the country in absolute chaos? We are good at destroying but we are just as good at rebuilding. We f***ed up and we are trying to make amends by helping the Iraqi people.
February 17th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Z
I think most Americans know we screwed up and didn't find any WMD's. Would you have rather us up and leave as soon as we found out we were wrong and leave the country in absolute chaos? We are good at destroying but we are just as good at rebuilding. We f***ed up and we are trying to make amends by helping the Iraqi people.
What has happened has happened. It can't be undone.

It would be catastrophic to upstake. I am of the opinion that all must get into the act to clean up the situation that is being presented by the AQ backed Sunnis and the Washington Post states the Shias are also getting rebellious. Unfortunately, those countries which subscribe to the UN Forces won't send troops if not under the UN Flag. In fact, it seems to have become too late for even that.

My contention is this - The US went to Iraq because she had to go in for her national interest. Period.

There is no need for explanation to anyone or riding the high horse of morality, freedom and democracy or anything of the sort, especially so when the events and other factors unravelling prove otherwise. And none believe that the US would sink itself for an esoterically lofty ideal. If she was that keen about the world population, then maybe the Kyoto would have been signed for whatever it is worth. There is so much of contradiction in the Good Samatritan image that the US wants to project as her sole reason for existence in the world, in a manner of speaking, that is.

It is this pulling wool over the eyes that gets the goat.

The US attitude should now be that the world can lump it why US went to Iraq and there is nothing better than being straight about it and others can then be damned. No need to pull this morality pizzazz or the freedom and democray song and a dance.

It even makes pro American foreigners shy away with embarrassment since they don't have a leg to stand on.
February 17th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
American leaders have to choose their words carefully but not to deceive. There are people who are just waiting to grab a snippet and pretend it is a major news story. As for the problems with the war on terror, if you aren't here with an answer, then you're part of the problem. But that would mean rolling up your sleeves and actually doing something useful. It's so much easier to be an armchair General, they never have to face an enemy or reality.
February 17th, 2005  
Peter Pan
 
Quote:
American leaders have to choose their words carefully but not to deceive.
And so the other leaders are plumb stupid and can shoot their mouth?

I am afraid I am being drawn into a discussion that I don't wish to indulge in since it leads to nowhere.

Hereinafter, I will desist from this post and then reply format unless something worthwhile comes the way.

Armchair General?

In actual life I was a General (and not a Cyber General) and have seen four conflicts and insurgency and terrorism too. That way I do have qualifications to speak on war, insurgency, and strategy.
February 17th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Then speak about war, strategy and Counter Insurgency. Having followed this thread I see nothing but a lot of back and forth geo- political posturing.
February 17th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pan
Quote:
American leaders have to choose their words carefully but not to deceive.
And so the other leaders are plumb stupid and can shoot their mouth?

I am afraid I am being drawn into a discussion that I don't wish to indulge in since it leads to nowhere.

Hereinafter, I will desist from this post and then reply format unless something worthwhile comes the way.

Armchair General?

In actual life I was a General (and not a Cyber General) and have seen four conflicts and insurgency and terrorism too. That way I do have qualifications to speak on war, insurgency, and strategy.
So you can criticize but not take criticism? Since everything you have written about America has been negative, I don't believe you care what the US mindset is on Iraq. By the way "stupid" is your word, not mine. I don't call names.