Turkey decided on an approval for an offensive against PKK based in northern Iraq

oRTouCH

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SIRNAK, Turkey (AP) -- Turkey's ruling party decided Tuesday to seek parliamentary approval for an offensive against Kurdish rebels based in northern Iraq, a move that could open a new front in the Iraq war and disrupt one of that nation's few relatively peaceful areas.
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Turkish tanks are carried towards Sirnak Tuesday, near the Turkish-Iraq border.


The government did not say it had decided to launch such an attack, which could jeopardize Turkey's ties with the United States. The U.S. warned against sending troops across the border and urged Turkey to work with Iraq's government to quell the Turkish Kurd guerrillas.
"If they have a problem, they need to work together to resolve it, and I'm not sure that unilateral incursions are the way to go," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said. "We have counseled, both in public and private, for many, many months, the idea that it is important to work cooperatively to resolve this issue."
In the past, Turkish troops have made small-scale "hot pursuit" raids into Iraq that officials say do not require Parliament's approval. The last major incursion against the militant separatists operating out of Iraq's Kurdish region was in 1997.
There are widespread fears that a Turkish offensive would destabilize Iraq's Kurdish area, which has largely escaped the violence and political turmoil afflicting regions dominated by Shiite Muslims and Sunni Arabs.
Iraqi Kurds who run a virtual mini-state in Iraq's north, have vowed to defend their borders. A spokesman for the Iraqi Kurdish regional government, Jamal Abdullah, urged Turkey on Tuesday to drop the idea of a military attack.
"We call upon the Turkish government to exercise self-restraint and not to turn the region into an unstable one," he said. "Such attacks will threaten the stability not only in Iraq but the whole region."

Turkey's decision to seek a parliamentary go-ahead was made during a three-hour meeting between Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and officials from his governing Justice and Development Party, said a leading member of the party who was at the meeting.
The party wanted the measure to pass "as soon as possible" and would try to present it to Parliament on Wednesday, the lawmaker said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. He insisted on anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to reporters.
Earlier Tuesday, the government said it had begun preparations for a military operation into Iraq in pursuit of the rebels after a series of deadly attacks on soldiers in recent days outraged Turks. Turkey previously had said it would prefer that the United States and its Iraqi Kurd allies in northern Iraq crack down on the rebel Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK which seeks to create an autonomous Kurdish state in Turkey's predominantly Kurdish southeast.
"Institutions concerned have been given the necessary orders and instructions to make all kinds of legal, economic and political preparations to end the presence of the terror organization in a neighboring country in the upcoming period, including if necessary a cross-border operation," said a statement issued after met with security officials.
Over the last 10 days, more than two dozen soldiers and civilians died in attacks by PKK rebels in the southeast. The group, labeled terrorist by Washington and the European Union, has fought Turkish forces since 1984 in a war that has killed tens of thousands of rebels, soldiers and civilians.
The public mood made it likely Parliament would move quickly to approve an offensive.
It wasn't clear if Turkey's military planned to strike immediately after approval or wait to see if the action would prod the U.S. and its allies to take robust action against the PKK bases.
However, Turks already have debated a cross-border offensive through much of the year and any further delay could hurt the credibility of the tough-talking government. The military declared months ago that it was ready for an incursion into Iraq.
Turkey's army staged two dozen large-scale incursions into northern Iraq between the late 1980s and 1997. The 1997 operation involved tens of thousands of soldiers and government-paid village guards.
While legislators took up the question of an attack into Iraq, Turkish troops supported by air power pressed ahead with an offensive in Turkey's Sirnak province close to the border. They targeted suspected escape routes for Kurdish guerrillas in the mountainous area.
Turks are furious that PKK rebels carry out attacks on Turkish soil and then slip across the border to sanctuaries in northern Iraq. Turkey has accused Iraqi Kurds of tolerating their ethnic brethren in the PKK.
Under intense pressure from leaders of Iraqi Kurds, Iraq's national government refused to allow Turkey to send troops across the border to chase the rebels under a counterterrorism pact the two countries signed in September.
Turkey does have potential nonmilitary weapons. It could close its border crossings with northern Iraq, which are major source of business for the Iraqi Kurd economy.


But the latest string of attacks by the PKK ramped up public pressure on Erdogan, who has been accused by the opposition of lacking determination to act.
"America is going 10,000 kilometers (6,200 miles) to hunt down terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. But we can't go 30 kilometers (20 miles), we cannot step into northern Iraq?" complained Abdulmuttalip Hanedan, a village guard leader in Sirnak.

10.10.2007 CNN www.cnn.com
 
I say give'em hell.
Good hunting, don't let up, take them all down and allow better Humans to move into the Area.
 
I think Turkey should go in Northern Iraq to clear the PKK terrorists. It's high time we did thid. As Abdulmuttalip Hanedan said, America comes from miles and miles away to give a so-called independency to Iraqis, but actually to seperate Iraq into three parts and threaten Turkey easier. But, we can't go in Iraq to clear the terrorists. We always say that we aren't against our Kurd brothers. But people who try to seperate Turkey can't be our brothers. So, we aren't against our Kurd brothers, (We live together, share our food, drink and brotherhood and we marry with each other.) instead, we are against PKK... Everybody must understand that Turkey can't be seperated.
 
In fact there are a lot of seperatist groups trying to seperate Turkey. Iran tried to change our system from a secular democratic country to a Islamic one by using Hezballah and couldn't achieve that goal. After that, Iran supported PKK to create an anarchy so that Iran can empoze its sytem to Turkey. But couldn't achieve that goal again.
So today, our ally US gives us no chance to go in there and clear there from terrorists. If they are fighting against terrorism then they should support us. And also without their support we can do whatever we want to save our citizens from terrorist attacks.
 
I say give'em hell.
Good hunting, don't let up, take them all down and allow better Humans to move into the Area.
Kill all the Kurds, the best allies we have inside Iraq. Brilliant. The Kurdish north is the only part of Iraq that isnt being torn apart by IEDs and violence. Where not one American soldier has been killed since the beginning of the war. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over. Please step away from the bong and open the window.
 
So today, our ally US gives us no chance to go in there and clear there from terrorists. If they are fighting against terrorism then they should support us. And also without their support we can do whatever we want to save our citizens from terrorist attacks.

So follow their lead and ignore them, its your nations security you have every right to protect it.
I strongly doubt that there would be much objection from the world (other than Iran) if you chose to cross the border.

I think Turkey should go in Northern Iraq to clear the PKK terrorists. It's high time we did thid.

Agree completely.
 
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I strongly doubt that there would be much objection from the world (other than Iran) if you chose to cross the border.
Sooooooo, Iraq and the United States are not part of the world now? Damn I missed that one on GoogleNews. One ally, one ally with the largest military in the world, being upset at something you do might be something to consider. And yes, before you say it, the US did not care what its allies around the world thought about invading Iraq. The biggest kid on the playground usually doesn't, whether they are right or wrong.

And then there is Iraq. You are going to piss off an oil rich country on your doorstep? Never a good idea. Some of them may not like the Kurds either but it is again THEIR country. Much better to do what Russia does with Georgia. Use the birdies in the sky to pinpoint their locations and then target the area with a conventional AGM from inside Turkey or a SSM. You can always fire the battery commander if the world gets pissed and claim he was an ultranationalist hothead.
 
Sooooooo, Iraq and the United States are not part of the world now? Damn I missed that one on GoogleNews. One ally, one ally with the largest military in the world, being upset at something you do might be something to consider. And yes, before you say it, the US did not care what its allies around the world thought about invading Iraq. The biggest kid on the playground usually doesn't, whether they are right or wrong.

And then there is Iraq. You are going to piss off an oil rich country on your doorstep? Never a good idea. Some of them may not like the Kurds either but it is again THEIR country. Much better to do what Russia does with Georgia. Use the birdies in the sky to pinpoint their locations and then target the area with a conventional AGM from inside Turkey or a SSM. You can always fire the battery commander if the world gets pissed and claim he was an ultranationalist hothead.


Why exactly does Turkey need to consult the USA on this issue and they have asked Iraq to turn over wanted members of the organisation and Iraq has refused to do so. Basically its just another Afghanistan only when the Turks are done they can pop back across the border and get on with life.

Like it or not Iraq is harboring terrorists that have repeatedly attacked Turkey and if they follow the US example and lead they have every right to go after them since neither the Iraqi government nor its "allies" appear willing to do the job themselves.

As for oil well there is always Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia in the vicinity all of whom can supply oil at the international price.
 
Why exactly does Turkey need to consult the USA on this issue and they have asked Iraq to turn over wanted members of the organisation and Iraq has refused to do so. Basically its just another Afghanistan only when the Turks are done they can pop back across the border and get on with life.

Like it or not Iraq is harboring terrorists that have repeatedly attacked Turkey and if they follow the US example and lead they have every right to go after them since neither the Iraqi government nor its "allies" appear willing to do the job themselves.

As for oil well there is always Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia in the vicinity all of whom can supply oil at the international price.
You're missing the point. Oil rich neighbours have the cash to buy weapons and deliver payback at a later date. History is riddled with examples that you can't just go back to life as normal afterwards... the offended parties tend to have LONG memories. Would New Zealand hand over its citizens if/when the US claims them to be terrorists? No proof, no legal proceedings, just give em up? You start handing over your own citizens to foreign governments regardless the reasons and you will be facing an untenable situation with your people most rickytick. And they should care what the US thinks because as I said, we are the 10,000 pound gorilla in the monkey cage. You don't piss off the gorilla.
 
My money is on Turkey, they have been more than restrained up until now even as it grows more and more obvious that Iraq is going to do nothing and more likely incapable of doing anything so its up to the Turkish government to protect its own people and I am sure they can do that most effectively once the gloves are off.

As for the gorilla well in this case it is somewhat toothless because the only real threat it has is of military action and I am reasonably sure that the day US troops open fire on Turkish troops to protect a group that its own state department have labeled a terrorist organisation will be a very interesting day in world and domestic politics.
 
The US cuts Turkey loose, no aid, no training, no nothing... there are a couple teeth still intact. And which country was it that didn't want to let our troops use her territory for a staging round for the invasion of Iraq?
 
The US cuts Turkey loose, no aid, no training, no nothing... there are a couple teeth still intact. And which country was it that didn't want to let our troops use her territory for a staging round for the invasion of Iraq?

That could be true however I am sure all these things could be filled by other NATO member states I hear France is looking to sell more equipment and once again I seriously doubt NATO would boot them for attacking the PKK.

I am thinking the remaining intact teeth could are getting a little blunt.
 
Third largest trading partner...
Major trading partners: Germany, UK, U.S., Italy, France, Spain, Russia, China (2004)
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108054.html

That's could smart a bit.

Exports: $72.49 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.): apparel, foodstuffs, textiles, metal manufactures, transport equipment.

Imports: $101.2 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.): machinery, chemicals, semifinished goods, fuels, transport equipment
Same source.

No man is an island, and in the world's globalised economy, nor is any country, metaphorically speaking.
 
All true but I suspect irrelevant, as I said earlier I think it will be an interesting day in politics when the USA moves to protect an organisation it has labeled a terrorist group.

Some how I just don't think that America will go to war, impose sanctions, place embargo's or in fact do anything more than make the usual "political" noises about regret, all this hype about terrorism and the global war has come back to bite you on the arse here.

Essentially you are stuck with a choice:

A) Take action against Turkey and watch the war on terror become a joke.
B) Buy off the Turks for the short term (could be expensive they don't seem to be for sale).
C) Let them do what they want to do and wave goodbye to Kurds as allies
 
The turkish guys, at least, put their case well, and i am pleased at how Turkey has been determined to maintain its secular stance, as per Attaturk.


As for Iraq, yes, now let me see............ what is needed............. is another Sadam! It seems that all they respect is strength and power.

Ole'.
 
Fourth option, coalition forces hunt down PKK members inside Iraq.

Fifth option. Get the Iraqi Kurds to hand them over by offering a homeland in return.

I like 5 the best, these people got shafted when Britain and France arbitrarily drew lines in the sand post WWI.
 
4. Will just mean Coalition forces get shot at instead of Turkish ones and given the coalitions inability to finish anything we will be holding the same argument in 6 months.

5. Might work but I doubt Turkey would or should turn over territory however if the Iraqi's want to give them a chunk of Iraq good for them, to be honest though handing over territory for peace didn't work that well in the 1930's and I am pretty sure will be just as ineffective this time.
 
Essentially you are stuck with a choice:

A) Take action against Turkey and watch the war on terror become a joke.
B) Buy off the Turks for the short term (could be expensive they don't seem to be for sale).
C) Let them do what they want to do and wave goodbye to Kurds as allies


Way I see it the US cannot attack Turkey without NATO Forces (minus the US of course) needing by Law to attack the United States in return, and Canada is right across our Northern Border, so, that would not turn out well for the United States, otherwise NATO ends because of nations breaking the Treaty.

And it is true that President Bush couldn't bribe the Turks before the Iraq misadventure, so I, like you do not believe the Turks can be bought off, seeing how it is their own Nation under attack from the Terrorists (Kurds).

Turkey moves into Iraq Militarily and I do not believe there will be many Kurds left, and as the United States has claimed the right of attacking any Nation that offers Safe Harbor to Terrorists engaged against the United States, well, Turkey attacking Iraq for offering Safe Harbor to Terrorist attacking Turkey seems legal enough.
 
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