tunisian soldier with steyr AUG

I can't honestly say. ANY bayonet on ANY rifle is enough incentive for most people to play nice. It's a well known tactic in crowd control situations to have soldiers put their bayonets on their rifles. It's VERY intimidating! As far as preference is concerned, I would naturally pick the M16, but that's because this is the weapon system I am most familiar with. I can't give an objective opinion because I have not had the pleasure of using a bullpup designed weapon.
 
I heard a lot of good stuff about the Famas rifle over here... But I dont trust them much as the french just LOVE french stuff... With the awful songs I hear on the radio, I say that we cant take their opinions seriously about homemade stuff, even when it's just awful...

And some people love hightech stuff, while others want old reliable designs...

In Tunisia, they have a very small army... They can afford to give them golden AKs if they wanted...
 
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I dont know where you get they idea the steyr is short from? it is still 800mm long. The bullpup design isnt necessarilyto reduce length, but to increase barrel length without increasing overall length, therefore increasing accuracy. yes it is not as long as the m16, but it isnt a pistol either!
 
Le Mask dear sir,

Have you ever seen the ballistic gel results of a 5.56 Ball point? And what it can do to the human body?...

Also do you realize that the Australian Army trains for accuracy?....

Long story short, you would not catch me within 400 yards of a pissed off Australian soldier with and F 88 PERIOD

Oh by the way, the M 16 is only 39.7 inches long, little over three feet, give or take an .10 an inch or so.

But being the beatiful imalgunation of plastic, polymers and steel aluminum alloy it is, the recoil spring is in the stock, break the stock...dislocate the spring, and your done for.

However fortunatly modern militaries do not rely solely on opinion for what weapon is king or what have you.But they actually train and put in countless hours in becoming very very effecient with a weapon instead. Bless the Almighty!

And respect for the professionals who have served with both weapons. I admire your skill.

Now this thread is getting a little heated, and Im going to show myself to the door,so I won't end up walking into a lane that's a little out of my leauge, so exuse me, but I going to queitly exit the room, and make sure I get the lights on my way out...
 
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More on the length issue, as you can see there isnt much difference
Modern-Rifles.JPG
 
The Somalis had a great deal of resect for Aussies armed with the F88.
They nicknamed it the "gun that never misses".
Its funny how the bulpup cops a hammering when the talk turns to bayonet fighting.
Having used both the old FN FAL and now the F88, the difference I have noticed is the F88 is easier to swing/move around as opposed to the heavier long arm FN FAL.
 
I understand the concept of the bullpup design very well. I'm sure that it's a very good design for accuracy/weight/size. I'm not discussing this part...

Eh, wait, what's with the picture... This cant be right... Well, I be damned. The Kangaroos made it right...
Was I looking at the sub machine gun model? nah...

It's true that there is only a few centimeters in difference, you can still swing that thing with ease and power...
I dont want to be the jerk that doesnt admit that he was wrong... But is it balanced for a swing? The front part of the gun is empty, just the barrel... While there is the magazine, the ammo, the machanics, and the rest of the barrel at the back of the rifle... Isnt that an issue for throwing a swing? It can also be a good thing for a swing for some reasons... I dont know...

And you guys have to be aware that this is a "direction", the future weapons can follow it to become even smaller, shorter, lighter... etc...

You better learn to ask for weapons you can swing at an enemy's teeth pretty soon...
 
LeMask said:
Spartan613, why are you talking about video games? I dont get it.

And okay, take a steyr Aug and give me an M16 and let's have a melee fight...

We all know that the advantage of bullpup design is to be shorter/lighter designs... But size and weight arent always a problem, they have some strong points...

And close combat is still a reality. You know that better than me. I know that most people who die in combat die in long range combat... But sometimes, you have to deal with you enemy in close combat and there is reports about Marines in Fallujah using their knives in combat.

And speaking about the Tunisian soldier in the picture. These soldiers were acting in riot situations where you have to deal with an angry crowd.

The crowd knows that the soldier wont use his rifle firepower only as a last resort because bullets can miss or worse penetrate multiple human beings...

But if you had an M16... You would be able to break some arms/legs easily...

And I know that a bullpup design can still be used to hit. You can hit people even with a pistol... As long as it's heavy and hard, you can do damage with it...

But in melee:
M16 design is superior to any bullpup design.

You can at least give me that.
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I don't have to give you anything, except the facts. I've done bayonet training with the M16 and we had a lot of them break. So much for the M16.

If you want to get into a bayonet fight, get yourself a SMLE. While you're fixing that 18 inch bayonet, I'll be messing you up with a well-aimed shot from my rifle at 900 metres, or pistol at 50.

If you want to control a crowd, get a fire truck.
 
LeMask said:
I dont need your approval...

I dont like these hightech, toy like, plastic looking, short guns... What's wrong with that?

If I say that a big heavy rifle is better for melee what's wrong with that? Why do you have to be jerks and insult people like that?

I think it's ridiculous to send soldiers with Steyr Augs to hold a position a riot situation... These things look like toys...

And can you tell me what kind of qualitications I need to have the right to voice an opinion here my good lord?
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You don't need a qualification to have an opinion. But if you're going to express stupid opinions, accept that you're going to be dealt with as... stupid.
 
Well put Mr. Spartan 613, with the facts about the M 16s plastic composite construction and how they would hold up with excessive stresses of hand to hand.
 
Spartan613, this is how you learn... You ask stupid question, you get corrected. And people wont wait for you to say something stupid to call you names...

And sometimes we judge things on subjective aspects... Like looks.

If I say that the Steyr Aug is an awful gun because I dont like it's shape... What's the problem with that? I personally like M16s. I think that the stoner design is wonderful... Is it a crime?
 
But I do... I do listen to experience.

But people dont come to spread their experience here unless you ask a question... And here, they dont answer your question or correct you when you are wrong, they insult you...

They start by calling you a dumbass who believes that video games are reality... The first answer I got involves video games... And then, they speak about BS posts... a way to say "shut up and disappear"...

If this is experience speaking, they can shove it deep when sun never shine... You see? I can speak like an experimented guy too.

I dont have any problem with experience, but I have a big problem with the poor attitude of some jerks here.

What the hell is this? FNG syndrome now applied to civilians? Post traumatic syndrome? A superiority complex? wth is wrong with some people here?
 
LeMask said:
Spartan613, this is how you learn... You ask stupid question, you get corrected. And people wont wait for you to say something stupid to call you names...

And sometimes we judge things on subjective aspects... Like looks.

If I say that the Steyr Aug is an awful gun because I dont like it's shape... What's the problem with that? I personally like M16s. I think that the stoner design is wonderful... Is it a crime?
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I like the look of the M4 with a M203 attached, but how something looks is less important than how it performs. The AUG/F88 with its longer barrel but equal overall length is superior to the M4 insofar as it's ability to deliver a bullet to the target. Looks don't come into it.
 
LeMask said:
But I do... I do listen to experience.

But people dont come to spread their experience here unless you ask a question... And here, they dont answer your question or correct you when you are wrong, they insult you...

They start by calling you a dumbass who believes that video games are reality... The first answer I got involves video games... And then, they speak about BS posts... a way to say "shut up and disappear"...

If this is experience speaking, they can shove it deep when sun never shine... You see? I can speak like an experimented guy too.

I dont have any problem with experience, but I have a big problem with the poor attitude of some jerks here.

What the hell is this? FNG syndrome now applied to civilians? Post traumatic syndrome? A superiority complex? wth is wrong with some people here?
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No one would get flogged for asking a question. But that's not what you've been doing. YOU have been throwing around half-arsed opinions. And that's something that will get you a flogging.

Want to press the "reset" button and try asking questions instead of making silly statements?
 
Want to play justice court Spartan613?

When did I speak about firepower here? It doesnt take a genius to understand the advantage of a bull-pup design. You put the magazine behind the trigger, so you get a longer canon for the same size... and bla bla...

But I didnt question firepower here. I questioned looks and I questioned the choices when it comes to size and weight as they can be useful in melee...

Maybe that for you a gun is made for shooting first, and the rest is only secondary... You dont care much about the value of your gun as a club if you can save a few pounds as you will have to carry it around... Good for you...

But I have other interests... I did some fencing when I was younger and I like the idea of having a sharp bayonet, even if it's not so important on a modern battlefield, and I like a long and heavy gun capable of dealing a lot of damage if we swing it...

These are choices... I'm not your defense minister trying to make you throw your beloved F88...

Dont forget one thing, you know why we speak so much about freedom? It's for a very simple reason. Because we dont know. We dont know what's best for us. This is why we allow people to do whatever they want, because we reached the level where we are humble enough to know that we dont have all the answers...

You say that the F88 is a good weapon? Well, maybe... But it's YOUR answer. Your answer as a professional soldier in a modern army...
Even if my comment are ridiculous, all it takes is a few ignorant people who think like me to make it a reality.

If this Tunisian soldier with his Steyr Aug gets attacked by an angry mob of individuals who are stupid enough to think that his rifle is a joke... Then they will add a few page in your smart-book to teach you how to look dangerous and scary when you are holding such a rifle...
 
Let's be careful so that no one ends up in Milforum Court.

I can make a new thread if you like on pros/cons of the F 88, then anyone who wishes to post can have their "reset" button granted, and we don't have to ruin someone else's thread about Tunisian Soldiers and their AUGs. Which is the topic here no?

Yo,
 
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