If you outlaw something, someone will figure out a way to get their hands on it.

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The outlawing of firearms from the law abiding citizenry will not prevent criminals from getting arms through illegal means by either through a illegal black market or through illegal manufacturer.

Also if the law abiding citizen needs a means to defend him/her self from criminals/despotics government and is restricted from owning arms. Don't think that just because they can't have arms or have access to them that they can't make them.

Isn't this contradictionary? If they are law abiding citizens and the law says it is illegal to have fire arms and they start making them illegally then they aren't law abiding are they? And then the cops have an easy recognizing the bad guys. So everybody is happy. Let the professionals do their job and all criminal law breakers go to jail

Originally Posted by Ted

Isn't this contradictionary? If they are law abiding citizens and the law says it is illegal to have fire arms and they start making them illegally then they aren't law abiding are they? And then the cops have an easy recognizing the bad guys. So everybody is happy. Let the professionals do their job and all criminal law breakers go to jail

ssshhhhh logic will not help you in this argument.

Logic, lets see…we put a kid in the military, teach him to use weapons, send him to war and have him kill people - then put him in jail at home for having a gun. Yep, that’s logic all right.

Among other evils that being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be despised. Niccolo Machiavelli

Originally Posted by muscogeemike

Logic, lets see…we put a kid in the military, teach him to use weapons, send him to war and have him kill people - then put him in jail at home for having a gun. Yep, that’s logic all right.

Among other evils that being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be despised. Niccolo Machiavelli

You clearly missed his point, which was.

If law abiding citizens make illegal guns at home they aren't law abiding citizens.

Lets be realistic no one is banning guns, in fact the big fear that Obama was planning to ban them fell flat when he relaxed rules on them in some areas, this is just another publicity stunt from a 2nd Amendment fanatic to keep it in the limelight and thus "relevant".

The reality is if anything should be illegal it is the unbelievably irresponsible move to show the general public how to make shoddy firearms that are probably more dangerous to the user than than the target.

I think MontyB is pretty much on the money,

I made plenty of firearms prior to the Australian laws being changed, but being a law abiding citizen, I have not made any since. The penalties are far too great to take the risk. I admit that it wouldn't prevent someone who was a criminal anyway, but that was not what he was pointing out.



And if you are wondering, I live in a state where the ownership of automatic weapons was not illegal, but their importation was, so the legal way around it was to make your own. I made dozens of them.

I have to agree, a person who violates the law is not law-abiding. But there is such a thing as an illegal law--which by definition would be any law that violates the rights specified in the Constitution--then law-abiding citizens have the right to ignore that law and abide by the highest law of the land, the Constitution.
In US history there have been numerous unjust laws that were changed or repealed as a result of civil disobedience.
In the military an officer or NCO cannot compel a serviceman to carry out an illegal order. In the civilian sector no governmental agency can compel its citizens to abide by an illegal law or regulation.

But isn't it just a bit too simplistic to pin current law, and it's legality, to a 225 year old document? Which... has been changed regarding some topics. So if the people really wanted to change the constitution, they could. But too many people like to stick to their guns regardless of the yearly costs in human lifes.

Ted. it will never happen

To enact a law in America, both houses of Congress will have to agree and if a law is approved, you as a citizen can take it to court and get the law overturned because the individual citizen's rights have priority over the interests of any other citizen.

Put another way, you'd rather protect the rights of individuals rather than everyone's safety and welfare.

Well said Seehund. That is why I said: If they really want to change... But they don't! Too many of the American people love their guns, so there will never be a change. Regardless of the body count inflicted by these weapons....