The true history of Taiwan. - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
September 17th, 2004  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: By the way...


half of the nation wants to reunite with Mainland China, but half wants to be independent. So, what is the solution? So, what do you suggest to solve this problem. It is not like the total population want to be independent rather want to see one whole China again.
September 17th, 2004  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: oh btw...


What was the purpose American Civil war? Slavery was only small part of it. Shouldn't the US alowed the south to be independent becuase both held different ideologies and somewhat different system.
September 17th, 2004  
Red_Army
 
 
I still think Taiwan should be a part of China. During the Shang Dynasty over 3000 years ago, the area of China was only 1/7 its size. Places like Guangzhou, Gunagdong, and the Western region was not even part of China yet. Over the many years, China expanded in size through war. Once they conquered the region, the inhabitants became Chinese. So if your saying that the Taiwanese are not Chinese, then shoudn't the Guangzhounese, Fuikenese, or HongKongnese be not considered Chinese as well? It seems in your mind, the Taiwan region is not part of China. When China first became a country, its region was only near Beijing. The only original Chinese are the ones living in Beijing, the inhabitants of rest of China, including Taiwan are transformed into Chinese over the years.
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Boots
September 17th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Army
During The only original Chinese are the ones living in Beijing, the inhabitants of rest of China, including Taiwan are transformed into Chinese over the years.
This shows a lack of knowledge about Chinese history. Beijing was the capital of some dynasties, most importantly the Manchu Dynasty. The Manchu Dynasty was thought of as a foreign occupation by most of the southern Cantonese speaking people. To this day, there is somewhat of a counter-culture between the two groups.

Some would say that the people united under the Han Dynasty are the original Chinese and the history of China identifies heavily with the Han. The Han Dynasty controlled a large area in southern China, nowhere near Bejing. During the later Song Dynasty, the rival Ching Dynasty (which was largely the result of barbarian conquest and considered a barbarian occupation by the Song) had its capital at Bejing. It might be noted that the Tang Dynasty was the only ancient Chinese Empire to gain control of much of Tibet, and after the Tang, Chinese control of that region was nonexistent for a very long time.

The Manchu Dynasty managed to control the greatest area geographically of any dynasty, but their control did not destroy the diversity of cultures under them. They were also the last dynasty.

Modern China seems to site the borders of the Manchu as "the real China", but that does not make everyone in that geographical area Chinese in my opinion. (It also would seem to predict that modern day Mongolia is also supposed to be part of China too). Does the fact that Japan was HEAVILY influenced ... even limitedly controlled by ancient China make them Chinese? I should hope not.
This is a pretty good link: http://www-chaos.umd.edu/history/toc.html

Anyways, that's my 2 cents. I'll have to find some links for my sources later.
September 18th, 2004  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Is that mean...


Canton and other southern provinces should be independent from China rule? If in that cast, China should be redivied into seven kingdoms before Qin dynasty.
September 18th, 2004  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: so...


China has been multicultural country for thousand of years. There are hundred of dialets and different minorities to comprised as the Chinese. Please define what counter-culture is.

The arguement of detereming Chinese with association of bloodline doesn't really work. The so called Han people (Chinese) have already mixed with so many breeds of minorities that the Chinese are not to be defined by its bloodline, cultrual background or creed.

Taiwanese were documented as Chinese during the Ching dynasty. So there was a historical prove that TW was part of Chinese map (doesn't matter if they were treated as barbarians though Taiwanese sizes are not considered that big).

I consider Taiwanese people as my brother and sister. I am proud of what they have done to make what Tw is today. I hope PRC and ROC can wrok out the differences and reunite just like West and East Germany. I don't see the reason and benefit of seperating the 2 regions as different entity.
September 18th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Well, go to the link and read up on the Manchu Dynasty, and that ought to give you more insight.

Quote:
Taiwanese were documented as Chinese during the Ching dynasty.
There are two possibilities for Ching Dynasty (due to a lack of "official" spelling, etc). Are we talking about the one that came about during the later years of the Song Dynasty. If its that one, you might consider that the Song Dynasty did not consider them Chinese at all.

I'm not saying that Taiwan is absolutely not part of China. I'm saying that there are two sides to it. Taiwan has a substantial history where they are considered part of China and they have substantial history as their own country as well.

Quote:
China has been multicultural country for thousand of years.
And the island of Formosa was part of that "unity" for how long? 1777 - 1948 isn't thousands of years.

What I meant by "counter-culture" is that there are two groups who didn't much care for each other under the same united rule. Similar to Bosnia-Hertzogovina and Serbia both being part of Yugoslavia.

I have a question for you. What does
Quote:
documented as Chinese
mean exactly??

Topics discussing Taiwan are just completely pointless, from what I've seen. PRC says its part of China and all who dare question that assessment are "ignorant", "selfish", "not capable of understanding Oriental culture" and so forth. There is no room for an open mind in this matter from either side, it seems. People start trading insults and it always ends badly. On top of that, Formosan (who started this topic) seems to have only been interested in posting once and who knows where he's wandered off to.
September 18th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
What's the official name of taiwan?

What's the language the taiwanese speak?

What's script do the taiwanese write?

September 18th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Formosa

Mandarin Chinese

Mandarin Chinese

What language is spoken by people in Australia? What's the name of the land? What language do they write in? What's this got to do with anything?
September 18th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Formosa

Mandarin Chinese

Mandarin Chinese

What language is spoken by people in Australia? What's the name of the land? What language do they write in? What's this got to do with anything?
Formosa? I bet not. I just checked, it is "Republic of China"

As for Australia, England is their ancestor country, no one (true Autralians) denies this.

But as for some taiwanese, they claim they have nothing to do with Chinese, while their President and Vice-president the Independence fighters, their ancestors were all from Chinese villiages just accros the Taiwan Strait, I find that extremely disgusting